UK Parliament / Open data

Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill

Debate on bills on Wednesday, 19 November 2014, in the House of Commons, led by Matt Hancock.
Report stage second day. Amendment 8 to clause 144 negatived on division (233 to 301). Amendment 10 to clause 145 negatived on division (235 to 303). Some amendments made. Third reading. Queen's and Prince of Wales's consent signified. Motion made that the Bill be now read the third time. Agreed to on question. Bill passed.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
588 cc278-332 
Session
2014-15
Legislative stage
Third reading and Report stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Ian Murray | 588 c279 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move amendment 8, page 134, line 4, at end insert—

‘(6A) The Secretary of State sh...

John Bercow | 588 c279 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 9, in clause 145, page ...


Show all contributions (133)
Ian Murray | 588 cc279-280 (Link to this contribution)

It is worth reflecting on the debate yesterday. The Minister for Business and Enterprise, who is ...

Barry Sheerman | 588 c280 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes some very good points, but does he not think that we restrict ourselves in o...

Ian Murray | 588 cc281-2 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for the intervention from my hon. Friend. Pay is a only a small element in the work...

Barry Sheerman | 588 c282 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech, but will he also mention local enterprise partnersh...

Ian Murray | 588 c282 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point. There are many agencies dealing directly with businesses, part...

Graham P Jones | 588 c282 (Link to this contribution)

Would these changes have an impact on people working in the informal economy who are not paid the...

Ian Murray | 588 cc282-3 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. We see in the informal economy forced self-employment, bogus self-employment and peop...

Barry Sheerman | 588 c283 (Link to this contribution)

Before my hon. Friend moves on, may I commiserate with him about last night’s football result? On...

Ian Murray | 588 cc283-4 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate what my hon. Friend says about what happens in his constituency. Public bodies could...

Tom Blenkinsop | 588 c284 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is no doubt aware that even the Treasury has admitted in statistical analysis that...

Ian Murray | 588 c284 (Link to this contribution)

That is the way the tax system works. People are allocated their national insurance and tax thres...

Gordon Birtwistle | 588 c284 (Link to this contribution)

Does the shadow Minister accept that the tax take is possibly down by a lot because of the increa...

Ian Murray | 588 c284 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman misses the point. If he was in his place earlier—I have no reason to doubt tha...

Gregory Campbell | 588 c285 (Link to this contribution)

This Government have made much of increasing the personal allowance, as some of us advocated many...

Ian Murray | 588 c285 (Link to this contribution)

There is a key balance in terms of raising the allowance. The poorest paid are not affected by an...

Graham P Jones | 588 c285 (Link to this contribution)

One of the pernicious elements of this situation is what we are starting to see in my constituenc...

Ian Murray | 588 c285 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. We are creeping into the wider problems with the employment market. There is a huge i...

Graham P Jones | 588 c285 (Link to this contribution)

It is certainly an issue in the construction sector in my constituency, but it is now spreading i...

Ian Murray | 588 cc285-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is most prevalent in the construction sector, but it affects other low-paid sectors as well. T...

Ian Murray | 588 c286 (Link to this contribution)

I haven’t finished yet—just you wait!

Let me go through why not being able to enforce these...

Brian H Donohoe | 588 c286 (Link to this contribution)

When I used to deal with what were then known as industrial tribunals, I understood that someone ...

Ian Murray | 588 cc286-9 (Link to this contribution)

That is part of the problem of enforcement, in that we do not know what mechanisms could be used ...

Sheila Gilmore | 588 cc288-290 (Link to this contribution)

I shall speak to the amendments, but this debate is about zero-hours contracts, and it is interes...

Andy McDonald | 588 c290 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the most grotesque manifestations of the way in which such ...

Sheila Gilmore | 588 cc290-1 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely agree that such methods are used to manage the process, and they might make it look ...

Gordon Birtwistle | 588 c291 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is making a passionate speech. I agree that there are a lot of anomalies in the car...

Sheila Gilmore | 588 c291 (Link to this contribution)

That allegation is made frequently. In the years up to 2007 when I was a local councillor, I did ...

Brian H Donohoe | 588 c291 (Link to this contribution)

In my constituency—I am sure the same is true of my hon. Friend’s constituency—the words “zero-ho...

Sheila Gilmore | 588 c291 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with my hon. Friend.

The hon. Member for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle) seems to belie...

Bill Esterson | 588 c291 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is quite right. This has become a huge problem in the past four and a half years, ...

Sheila Gilmore | 588 c291 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for his pertinent intervention.

Tom Blenkinsop | 588 c292 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend know whether the hon. Member for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle) was the Parliame...

Sheila Gilmore | 588 c292 (Link to this contribution)

I do not think that there is any need to add to that observation.

When people work on a reg...

Greg Knight | 588 c292 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Lady accept that there could be circumstances in which amendment 10 would affect an...

Sheila Gilmore | 588 c292 (Link to this contribution)

I cannot see any reason why somebody should not have a seasonal, fixed-term contract for a partic...

Graham P Jones | 588 c292 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making an important point about the retention of skills and the need to develop...

Sheila Gilmore | 588 c292 (Link to this contribution)

That is an important point, and as my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South said, one reason...

Graham P Jones | 588 c292 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making the important point that Britain’s productivity is poor and is not helpe...

Sheila Gilmore | 588 cc292-3 (Link to this contribution)

And of course that feeds directly into the fact that the Government’s deficit is rising again in ...

David Rutley | 588 c293 (Link to this contribution)

I understand and appreciate the hon. Lady’s argument, which she is making with passion, as she re...

Sheila Gilmore | 588 c293 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure that some people would like the Opposition to table amendments to abolish zero-hours co...

Tom Blenkinsop | 588 c293 (Link to this contribution)

This is not just about zero-hours contracts. Under the amendments, an employee would be entitled ...

Sheila Gilmore | 588 cc293-4 (Link to this contribution)

That is an important comment, and it illustrates again the importance of giving people protection...

Andy McDonald | 588 c294 (Link to this contribution)

The fundamental point is about choice, which the hon. Member for Macclesfield (David Rutley) touc...

Sheila Gilmore | 588 c294 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend echoes the point that I was seeking to make. If there were equality of arms and pe...

Bill Esterson | 588 cc294-5 (Link to this contribution)

In evidence to the Committee, Sarah Veale from the TUC said that there is a significant differenc...

Andy McDonald | 588 c295 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that the impact of people being subjected to zero-hours contracts inhib...

Bill Esterson | 588 cc295-6 (Link to this contribution)

That is exactly my point, and I will be developing it during my speech. The lack of certainty lea...

Tom Blenkinsop | 588 c296 (Link to this contribution)

Proposed new section 6A(c) in amendment 8 states

“changes in provisions relating to the nat...

Bill Esterson | 588 c296 (Link to this contribution)

That is absolutely right, and as evidence from the TUC that I mentioned earlier made clear, where...

Tom Blenkinsop | 588 c296 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that the best way to have collective bargaining on site is to pay subsc...

Bill Esterson | 588 c297 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend raises an incredibly important point and is absolutely right to raise it in the co...

Graham P Jones | 588 c297 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend referred to the Government policy of name and shame, which I understand has been a...

Bill Esterson | 588 c297 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend must have been reading my speech, because I was about to make exactly that point. ...

Brian H Donohoe | 588 c297 (Link to this contribution)

Even if they were paid the minimum wage, working for three hours a week does not, in any shape or...

Bill Esterson | 588 c297 (Link to this contribution)

We should undoubtedly do everything we can to encourage employers to pay a much higher rate. The ...

Brian H Donohoe | 588 c297 (Link to this contribution)

I am talking not so much about the living wage or the minimum wage as the number of hours people ...

Bill Esterson | 588 cc297-8 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend rightly brings me back to zero-hours contracts and the problems and difficulties t...

Bill Esterson | 588 c298 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister shakes her head. Is she telling me that I am wrong when I say that the people who us...

Jo Swinson | 588 c298 (Link to this contribution)

I am not telling him that his constituents are not being truthful in relation to their circumstan...

Bill Esterson | 588 c298 (Link to this contribution)

I am glad the Minister has made that point. The reality is that those who used to work for HMRC w...

Ian Murray | 588 c299 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an incredibly important point. As he will agree, the fact that unemployment ...

Bill Esterson | 588 c299 (Link to this contribution)

The economic indicators tell the story. Whatever the Government are doing and whatever is happeni...

John McDonnell | 588 cc300-1 (Link to this contribution)

I apologise for arriving halfway through the Front-Bench spokesman’s introduction and for having ...

Jo Swinson | 588 c301 (Link to this contribution)

I shall focus most of my remarks on the debate about the national minimum wage and zero-hours con...

David Rutley | 588 c302 (Link to this contribution)

I wanted the Minister to pause for a second on this issue, because it is important to recognise t...

Jo Swinson | 588 cc302-3 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an important point. This is a basic issue of fairness as well as value for m...

Ian Murray | 588 c303 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is always incredibly generous in giving way. She has explained how the reports go to...

Jo Swinson | 588 cc303-4 (Link to this contribution)

The evidence submitted in the reports is pretty comprehensive, so I think it does meet the requir...

Bill Esterson | 588 c304 (Link to this contribution)

I am pleased that the Minister has given us those figures, but if so many people are involved, wh...

Jo Swinson | 588 c304 (Link to this contribution)

So far 30 employers have been named and shamed, and, as I said in Committee, there will be a furt...

Iain Wright | 588 c304 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister will recall that, in Committee, I raised the issue of umbrella companies, in which p...

Jo Swinson | 588 c304 (Link to this contribution)

The enforcement team can look into any breach of the national minimum wage, and it can enforce no...

Bill Esterson | 588 c305 (Link to this contribution)

I do not remember whether the Minister gave these figures in Committee, but she said a few moment...

Jo Swinson | 588 cc305-6 (Link to this contribution)

I think that the hon. Gentleman is comparing apples with oranges. According to the most recent es...

Iain Wright | 588 c306 (Link to this contribution)

Does the Minister think that the significant increase in the number of zero-hours contracts over ...

Jo Swinson | 588 c306 (Link to this contribution)

It certainly is a sign of a flexible employment market, which is good for the UK economy. It ensu...

Ian Murray | 588 c306 (Link to this contribution)

If the Minister thinks that there is no problem with zero-hours contracts, can she explain why th...

Jo Swinson | 588 cc306-7 (Link to this contribution)

Various issues affect the tax take and employment, not least the amounts that people are earning,...

Ian Murray | 588 c307 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Minister for answering some of the questions but, on amendment 8, it is not ...

Matt Hancock | 588 cc320-1 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

I would like to start by thanking ...

Ian Murray | 588 c321 (Link to this contribution)

Will the Minister tell the House how he can enforce the provisions on exclusivity clauses?

Matt Hancock | 588 c321 (Link to this contribution)

Thanks to the Bill, exclusivity clauses will no longer be valid; they will be null and void. The ...

Andy McDonald | 588 c321 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister has not said how he is going to enforce this. How will it be enforced—will he answer...

Matt Hancock | 588 c321 (Link to this contribution)

As I said, not only will any exclusivity clause be null and void, but we are consulting on those ...

Julie Hilling | 588 c321 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is trumpeting getting rid of the exclusivity clauses as being a marvellous thing, bu...

Matt Hancock | 588 c321 (Link to this contribution)

The heart of the problem is that for 13 years the Labour party, having promised to do something a...

Robert Neill | 588 c322 (Link to this contribution)

I recognise the importance of the initiatives set out in part 8. Does the Minister recognise that...

Matt Hancock | 588 c322 (Link to this contribution)

I strongly agree with my hon. Friend. Improving transparency internationally is important in ensu...

Jim Cunningham | 588 c322 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure the Minister has covered this before, but it is worth saying again that one big problem...

Matt Hancock | 588 cc322-3 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is dead right about that and he anticipates my next paragraph. We have also st...

Toby Perkins | 588 c323 (Link to this contribution)

Is the Minister not being a little disingenuous to suggest that the Government have listened to w...

Matt Hancock | 588 c323 (Link to this contribution)

No. As the hon. Gentleman knows, no amendments were moved yesterday on family brewers. We will re...

Bill Esterson | 588 c323 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister says he is going to reflect on the vote, with the will of the House being the market...

Matt Hancock | 588 c323 (Link to this contribution)

As I have said, the House has made its position clear and we will reflect on that vote ahead of c...

Toby Perkins | 588 cc323-4 (Link to this contribution)

I echo the Minister’s thanks to everyone who has contributed to the surprising and interesting pa...

Jim Cunningham | 588 c324 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure my hon. Friend will agree that the test of this Bill will be in its implementation. We ...

Toby Perkins | 588 c324 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. He is absolutely right. Let me take this opportunity to ...

Jim Cunningham | 588 c325 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. Friend for paying such a compliment to Coventry. In the last recession, during th...

Toby Perkins | 588 c325 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to trumpet the manufacturing excellence of his city and Jaguar...

Jim Cunningham | 588 c325 (Link to this contribution)

Interestingly, when Coventry city council joined with the university of Warwick to set up a busin...

Toby Perkins | 588 c325 (Link to this contribution)

I could not agree more. That is an example of how Government and industry can work together to bu...

Gordon Birtwistle | 588 c325 (Link to this contribution)

Surely the hon. Gentleman agrees that the advances in apprenticeships and high-tech skills that t...

Toby Perkins | 588 cc325-6 (Link to this contribution)

I accept that some progress has been made. There was a real rebirth in apprenticeships over the s...

Jonathan Edwards | 588 c326 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman talked about the need to tackle the problem of low-wage jobs. Today’s report b...

Toby Perkins | 588 c326 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. I am glad that Members can cite important statistics...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 588 c327 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Before the hon. Member for Chesterfield (Toby Perkins) considers giving way, I must point ...

Toby Perkins | 588 c327 (Link to this contribution)

Of course I take your guidance, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I shall attempt to crack on but, as we ...

Toby Perkins | 588 c327 (Link to this contribution)

I shall give way in a moment.

Indeed, the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly) tabled a...

Toby Perkins | 588 c327 (Link to this contribution)

I can see you, but I am saying something at the moment. The hon. Member for Huntingdon wished to ...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 588 c327 (Link to this contribution)

Order. This is not the moment for discussing the programme order. We have very little time left i...

Toby Perkins | 588 c327 (Link to this contribution)

I think that that rather makes my point, Madam Deputy Speaker.

At the start of the Bill’s p...

Toby Perkins | 588 cc327-8 (Link to this contribution)

Frankly, the right hon. Gentleman is the one who ought to be a bit embarrassed.

Let me cont...

Tom Blenkinsop | 588 c328 (Link to this contribution)

On a slightly different note, I wanted to raise one factor that was highlighted to me. There has ...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 588 c328 (Link to this contribution)

Order. That is not a point for Third Reading. I asked the hon. Member for Chesterfield (Toby Perk...

Toby Perkins | 588 c328 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Tom Blenkinsop) was making ...

Jonathan Djanogly | 588 cc328-9 (Link to this contribution)

I declare my interests as they appear in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.

On S...

Robert Neill | 588 c329 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is making a powerful case and I very much agree with him. Is it not significant th...

Jonathan Djanogly | 588 cc329-330 (Link to this contribution)

That may be the case, but it has not been said in public.

There is a hint in the impact ass...

Matt Hancock | 588 c330 (Link to this contribution)

Given that there will be no winding-up speeches in this debate, I would like to say for the recor...

Jonathan Djanogly | 588 c331 (Link to this contribution)

I am very pleased indeed to hear that confirmation from the Minister. I look forward to having fu...

Bill Esterson | 588 cc331-2 (Link to this contribution)

The Bill has the words “Small Business” firmly in the title, but the measures it introduces also ...

Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 588 c332 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I asked the hon. Gentleman to be brief. I trust that he will listen to the Chair.

Bill Esterson | 588 c332 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I made that point because the Bill was an opportunity to tackle ...

Nadhim Zahawi | 588 c332 (Link to this contribution)

In the short time remaining I will make only a few points and post the rest of my speech online. ...

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