UK Parliament / Open data

Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill

Debate on bills on Monday, 14 October 2013, in the House of Commons.
Report stage (first day). New clauses 8, 14 and 20 and new Schedule 1 added. Clauses 4, 8, 9, 12, 21, 32, 40, 43, 45, 60, 62, 63, 70, 73, 81, 93, 100, amendments made. New clause 4, negatived on division (215 to 298). Bill to be further considered tomorrow.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
568 cc463-567 
Session
2013-14
Department
Home Office
Legislative stage
Report stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Damian Green | 568 c468 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Baroness Primarolo | 568 cc468-472 (Link to this contribution)

With this, it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government new clause 14—Sexual ...


Show all contributions (145)
Damian Green | 568 cc472-3 (Link to this contribution)

The Government proposals are in my name and that of my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary. New ...

Ann Coffey | 568 c473 (Link to this contribution)

I seek clarification from the Minister. The risk of sexual harm orders, which the new sexual risk...

Damian Green | 568 cc473-4 (Link to this contribution)

If I may, I will first pay tribute to the hon. Lady, who has campaigned on these issues for a lon...

Julian Huppert | 568 c474 (Link to this contribution)

When the Minister mentioned the sexual risk orders, he helpfully highlighted the fact that they w...

Damian Green | 568 c474 (Link to this contribution)

There is a specified list, which applies to the existing orders, and they are the obvious acts of...

Damian Green | 568 c474 (Link to this contribution)

Before I give way to the hon. Gentleman, I will address the point made by the hon. Member for Sto...

Julian Huppert | 568 c474 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for his earlier comments and for his understanding of the need for safeguard...

Damian Green | 568 cc474-5 (Link to this contribution)

We wish to avoid impracticalities in the system—we do not want to clog up the court system. The o...

Julian Huppert | 568 c475 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is being very generous in giving way and I thank him. One of the things he is keepin...

Damian Green | 568 cc475-6 (Link to this contribution)

As I said, I very much share the hon. Gentleman’s desire for the safeguards to be effective. That...

Diana Johnson | 568 cc476-8 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for setting out the amendments in the group. These are a completely new set ...

Robert Buckland | 568 c478 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is providing a very helpful summary of the changes. I think that the removal of the...

Diana Johnson | 568 cc478-9 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that intervention, and I know that the hon. Gentleman speaks from a great deal ...

Robert Buckland | 568 c479 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is making a very important point about the standard of proof. One key consideration...

Diana Johnson | 568 c479 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. Again, I know that he speaks from great experience. I simply...

Julian Huppert | 568 c480 (Link to this contribution)

I have been following everything that the hon. Lady says. I presume that she is not suggesting th...

Diana Johnson | 568 c480 (Link to this contribution)

I find it extremely annoying that when Liberal Democrats get to their feet on child protection is...

Diana Johnson | 568 c480 (Link to this contribution)

I will continue, because I have a feeling that this debate could go on all night with the Liberal...

Mark Reckless | 568 c480 (Link to this contribution)

We have learnt that many of the problems in this area have been a failure of enforcement—a failur...

Diana Johnson | 568 cc480-1 (Link to this contribution)

The new clauses and amendments have been tabled by the Government and the hon. Member for Oxford ...

Paul Beresford | 568 c481 (Link to this contribution)

If the hon. Lady looks at the new clause, she will see that the second half covers that point, so...

Diana Johnson | 568 c481 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that clarification. I hope that the Minister will be able...

Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford | 568 cc481-3 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister and the shadow Minister for their opening remarks. I will speak to new claus...

Robert Buckland | 568 c483 (Link to this contribution)

I pay warm tribute to my hon. Friend for the outstanding work she is doing on this issue. I echo ...

Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford | 568 cc483-5 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. To answer the shadow Minister’s question about whether a civil standard would be appr...

Keith Vaz | 568 c485 (Link to this contribution)

May I begin by apologising to the hon. Member for Oxford West and Abingdon (Nicola Blackwood) for...

Paul Beresford | 568 cc485-7 (Link to this contribution)

I echo those congratulations. One thing I have discovered in this House is that it is possible fo...

Julian Huppert | 568 c487 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is clearly talking about some horrific material, and I am listening carefully ...

Paul Beresford | 568 c487 (Link to this contribution)

No, it does not. I am looking at changes to the Coroners and Justice Act 2009, not to the Obscene...

Robert Buckland | 568 c487 (Link to this contribution)

The Obscene Publications Act was very much on my mind as well. Very often this material is genera...

Paul Beresford | 568 c487 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend goes halfway towards putting the case. He is right, but the police tell me that th...

Paul Goggins | 568 c487 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has given the House a valuable insight into how, for at least 10 years, he has...

Paul Beresford | 568 cc487-8 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the right hon. Gentleman. I am delighted to have his support. When he was a Minister he w...

Andrew Smith | 568 c488 (Link to this contribution)

I strongly support the remarks of and the campaign by my friend, the hon. Member for Oxford West ...

Julian Huppert | 568 cc488-9 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate. I pay tribute to my colleague on the Home Affairs Commi...

Diana Johnson | 568 c489 (Link to this contribution)

In discussing civil orders I merely raised a question about the appropriate standard of proof. I ...

Julian Huppert | 568 c489 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Lady for that clarification. My own view is that I would not even want to consid...

Mark Reckless | 568 c489 (Link to this contribution)

The record will of course show this, but does my hon. Friend agree that his point was to raise a ...

Julian Huppert | 568 cc489-490 (Link to this contribution)

I agree factually with the hon. Gentleman, but I do not want to dwell on that, because it detract...

Simon Danczuk | 568 c490 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry that I was not able to be here for the beginning of the debate; unfortunately, I had S...

Keith Vaz | 568 c491 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend was one of the most vocal in the criticisms of the way in which Rochdale council o...

Simon Danczuk | 568 c491 (Link to this contribution)

I appreciate my right hon. Friend’s intervention. I am more satisfied than ever that Rochdale cou...

Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford | 568 c491 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his kind words. To pick up on the point made by the hon. ...

Simon Danczuk | 568 c491 (Link to this contribution)

I completely agree. Much of this is about not just the tools available, but the culture in the lo...

Damian Green | 568 c491 (Link to this contribution)

I thank hon. Members from all parties, not just for their universal support for the measures, but...

Mark Reckless | 568 c491 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister has said that a few people campaigned on the issue. Does he agree that others failed...

Damian Green | 568 cc492-3 (Link to this contribution)

Clearly, there were widespread failures in a number of institutions and that is what a large numb...

Ann Coffey | 568 c493 (Link to this contribution)

On the support that is available in court for vulnerable witnesses, does the Minister agree that ...

Damian Green | 568 c493 (Link to this contribution)

Appointing registered intermediaries before the first police interview may be difficult in practi...

Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford | 568 c494 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome the protections that allow defendants to apply for variation and discharge. However, I ...

Damian Green | 568 cc494-5 (Link to this contribution)

That is a valid point. To deal with the practical point, once an order is made, the supervision o...

Baroness Primarolo | 568 c495 (Link to this contribution)

No, you do not get another opportunity to speak, Sir Paul, but I assume that you do not wish to p...

Baroness Primarolo | 568 c495 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you. Maybe next time it would be helpful to make a point of order.

Question put and a...

Simon Hughes | 568 c509 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Baroness Primarolo | 568 cc509-510 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 158, in clause 1, page ...

Simon Hughes | 568 cc510-2 (Link to this contribution)

I wish to speak to the new clause and amendments that I and the hon. Member for Aberavon (Dr Fran...

Julian Huppert | 568 c512 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is making an extremely good point. Has he had a chance to consider the repor...

Simon Hughes | 568 cc512-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am aware of the report by the Home Affairs Committee. One good thing is that since I started—my...

Julian Huppert | 568 c513 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is making an extremely good series of points. Does he share a concern about ...

Simon Hughes | 568 cc514-7 (Link to this contribution)

One of the things that I hope we do better now because of Select Committees is take time to get B...

Steve Reed | 568 cc517-8 (Link to this contribution)

Let me start by paying tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Ashfield (Gloria De Piero) for th...

Kelvin Hopkins | 568 c518 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate my hon. Friend on his appointment. Conservatives and Liberal Democrats represent a...

Steve Reed | 568 c519 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an interesting point, but antisocial behaviour can happen in any community. ...

Stephen Phillips | 568 c519 (Link to this contribution)

Why, if ASBOs with criminal penalties attached are so successful, do 70% to 80% of teenagers agai...

Steve Reed | 568 c519 (Link to this contribution)

I have given the hon. and learned Gentleman examples of how we successfully used ASBOs to drive d...

Julian Huppert | 568 c519 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman argues the case for ASBOs passionately, but I am not sure hon. Members agree t...

Steve Reed | 568 c520 (Link to this contribution)

That might be the hon. Gentleman’s view and that of many of his colleagues, but many in the polic...

Simon Hughes | 568 c520 (Link to this contribution)

I warmly welcome the hon. Gentleman to his new responsibilities. I remember his days as Labour le...

Steve Reed | 568 cc520-1 (Link to this contribution)

I argue that we should retain ASBOs alongside IPNAs as alternatives for the police and local coun...

Tracey Crouch | 568 c522 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome my hon. Friend the Minister to his new position and I look forward to working with him ...

Priti Patel | 568 c522 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for mentioning my constituent, who was involved in a horrific bul...

Tracey Crouch | 568 cc522-3 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a very good point, and that is exactly why it is important to add to the Bil...

John McDonnell | 568 cc523-5 (Link to this contribution)

I support amendments 158, 176 and 177, which have been tabled by the Joint Committee on Human Rig...

Simon Hughes | 568 c524 (Link to this contribution)

I said that we would not press the amendments to a Division tonight so that we can hear what the ...

John McDonnell | 568 c524 (Link to this contribution)

I am hoping that the relationship the right hon. Gentleman has with the Minister is so influentia...

Julian Huppert | 568 cc524-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell). I agree wit...

Stephen Phillips | 568 c526 (Link to this contribution)

Whether or not ASBOs were effective originally, does my hon. Friend agree that, over time, they h...

Julian Huppert | 568 c526 (Link to this contribution)

I agree; my hon. Friend is right that ASBOs simply do not work, so the idea of continuing them do...

Jim Cunningham | 568 c526 (Link to this contribution)

Before the 1997 election, my right hon. Friend the Member for Coventry North East (Mr Ainsworth) ...

Julian Huppert | 568 cc526-7 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely accept that there are problems of antisocial behaviour, including in many areas of m...

Simon Hughes | 568 c527 (Link to this contribution)

Sometimes, of course, the best interest of the child is to have discipline from outside the famil...

Julian Huppert | 568 c528 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right, highlighting why it is important to have this provision...

Elfyn Llwyd | 568 cc528-530 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with what the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) and the h...

Stephen Phillips | 568 c530 (Link to this contribution)

I intend to speak to the amendments for which I am at least in part responsible, and which were n...

Peter Bottomley | 568 c530 (Link to this contribution)

Drawing the attention of those on the Opposition Front Bench to the speech that my hon. and learn...

Stephen Phillips | 568 cc530-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his intervention, but I fear that it may be counter-productiv...

Mark Field | 568 c533 (Link to this contribution)

I thank my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Stephen Phillips) f...

Steve Reed | 568 c533 (Link to this contribution)

At a time when the police have had to suffer a 20% cut in funding, is it appropriate to expect th...

Mark Field | 568 c533 (Link to this contribution)

I certainly do not think the figures to which the hon. Gentleman refers reflect the cuts at groun...

Simon Hughes | 568 c534 (Link to this contribution)

I and a former leader of Lambeth council and others have dealt with these issues for a long time....

Mark Field | 568 c534 (Link to this contribution)

Naturally, I will try to be constructive. I wholly agree that the lower level nuisance and annoya...

Stephen Phillips | 568 c534 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend raises an extremely important point, to which I hope the Minister will respond. Mi...

Mark Field | 568 cc534-5 (Link to this contribution)

I cannot use ignorance of the law as an excuse, but my hon. and learned Friend knows considerably...

Norman Baker | 568 cc535-7 (Link to this contribution)

May I take the opportunity of my first outing in my new capacity to thank Members on both sides o...

Simon Hughes | 568 c537 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has said that his amendments deal with an issue that was clearly controversial: th...

Norman Baker | 568 cc537-8 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend is as eager as he was when he first arrived in this House many years ago. If...

Steve Reed | 568 c538 (Link to this contribution)

Why are the Government seeking to decriminalise antisocial behaviour when 80% of the public feel ...

Norman Baker | 568 cc538-9 (Link to this contribution)

I will come on to the powers we are introducing, but the hon. Gentleman spent a lot of his contri...

Steve Reed | 568 c539 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister talked about trusting the police and local councils and adding more tools to their a...

Norman Baker | 568 cc539-540 (Link to this contribution)

First, ASBOs have been increasingly ineffective and have become a badge of honour in some cases; ...

Norman Baker | 568 c540 (Link to this contribution)

If the hon. Gentleman is going to withdraw it, I will gladly give way.

Steve Reed | 568 c540 (Link to this contribution)

I am not planning to withdraw it. I wonder whether the Minister is dismissing out of hand the vie...

Norman Baker | 568 c540 (Link to this contribution)

I am certainly not dismissing them, and they have been looked at carefully, but it is important t...

Stephen Phillips | 568 c540 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that rather then relying on letters from the great and the good, perhap...

Norman Baker | 568 c540 (Link to this contribution)

That is exactly right. The shadow Minister said that the recent crime survey showed that 80% of p...

Julian Huppert | 568 c540 (Link to this contribution)

The shadow Minister mentioned a list of people who have concerns about IPNAs. I think they would ...

Norman Baker | 568 cc540-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that intervention, which puts the matter on the record.

The shadow Minist...

John McDonnell | 568 c543 (Link to this contribution)

I wonder whether the Minister could re-read the script that he has just read. He spoke about an i...

Norman Baker | 568 cc543-4 (Link to this contribution)

I understand entirely the point that the hon. Gentleman is making. I make no promises, but I have...

Simon Hughes | 568 c544 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) and I both raised that last matter. I u...

Norman Baker | 568 c544 (Link to this contribution)

There was particular concern about processions and picketing. That is why they were singled out f...

Stephen Phillips | 568 c544 (Link to this contribution)

Is it not a difficulty, though, that even though the amendment may be intended simply to be conse...

Norman Baker | 568 c544 (Link to this contribution)

The advice I am getting from officials is very clear—that this is an appropriate conclusion to re...

Steve Reed | 568 c545 (Link to this contribution)

We are raising these issues because the Welsh Assembly Government have raised them. Perhaps, rath...

Norman Baker | 568 c545 (Link to this contribution)

As I understand it, we have spoken to the Welsh Assembly Government, but I think I have made a ge...

Simon Hughes | 568 c545 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Minister for dealing with all the new clauses and amendments—...

John McDonnell | 568 c545 (Link to this contribution)

The last one is amendment 177. I think the right hon. Gentleman said it was amendment 178. On ame...

Simon Hughes | 568 c546 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right; I meant amendment 177, which is the highest-numbered in t...

Damian Green | 568 c550 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Lindsay Hoyle | 568 cc550-1 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 4—Firearms’ licensing—...

Damian Green | 568 cc551-2 (Link to this contribution)

The purpose of the amendments is to preserve the position of the authority of Scottish Ministers ...

Diana Johnson | 568 cc552-6 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the Minister for setting out his amendments. The Opposition think these are entirely sens...

Steve Rotheram | 568 c556 (Link to this contribution)

I want to focus my remarks on new clause 4. Part 8 of the Bill deals with firearms, and I broadly...

Jim Shannon | 568 c556 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is not right to pursue legislative change against law-abidi...

Steve Rotheram | 568 cc556-8 (Link to this contribution)

I suppose it would depend on the aim of the legislative change. The community that I represent ne...

Tessa Munt | 568 c558 (Link to this contribution)

In a rural area such as mine, a number of people have to hold firearms licences because they deal...

Steve Rotheram | 568 cc558-9 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is absolutely right that if the burden can be transferred to another expense and ta...

Damian Green | 568 cc559-560 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Steve Rotheram) for his very thoughtful s...

Mark Spencer | 568 c560 (Link to this contribution)

I hope that, in the course of his deliberations, the Minister will consider some of my constituen...

Damian Green | 568 c560 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend has made a good point. I shall deal shortly with the third issue that I identified...

Jim Shannon | 568 c560 (Link to this contribution)

What guarantees or safeguards will be in place for husbands or partners who are firearms holders ...

Damian Green | 568 cc560-1 (Link to this contribution)

The protections are the new guidelines, the new professional standards issued by the college and ...

Diana Johnson | 568 c561 (Link to this contribution)

Given that such huge cuts are being made to public services these days, does the Minister feel en...

Damian Green | 568 c561 (Link to this contribution)

The point that I am making is that it is today; the use of an electronic licensing system is avai...

Tessa Munt | 568 c561 (Link to this contribution)

Surely, using e-commerce for firearms licensing will still involve police time in investigating i...

Damian Green | 568 c561 (Link to this contribution)

The short answer is that it can. Yes, the police will want to do thorough checks of the premises ...

Tessa Munt | 568 c562 (Link to this contribution)

Can the Minister give me some idea of what the police feel the cost would be if they were to use ...

Damian Green | 568 c562 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady may be right, but the more people use electronic systems, the more savings there ar...

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