UK Parliament / Open data

Accountability and Transparency in the NHS

Backbench debate on Thursday, 14 March 2013, in the House of Commons, led by Charlotte Leslie. The answering member was Jeremy Hunt.
Thirty-second backbench debate (part two). Motion that this House believes that in the wake of the Francis Report it is clear that accountability and transparency are of paramount importance to patient safety and trust in the NHS; and further believes that across the NHS individuals found to have breached those principles should face the appropriate consequences. Agreed to on question.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
560 cc513-582 
Session
2012-13
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Report of the Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust public inquiry.
Tuesday, 12 February 2013
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
Report of the Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust public inquiry.
Tuesday, 5 March 2013
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Charlotte Leslie | 560 cc514-5 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move,

That this House believes that in the wake of the Francis Report it is clear ...

Alan Johnson | 560 c515 (Link to this contribution)

If the hon. Lady turns to page 1,281 of volume 2 of the Francis report, she will see that, far fr...


Show all contributions (149)
Lindsay Hoyle | 560 c515 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Before the hon. Lady responds—[Interruption.] I am sorry, but does the Opposition Whip hav...

Lindsay Hoyle | 560 c515 (Link to this contribution)

Thank goodness for that.

We need short and concise interventions, because many Members wish...

Charlotte Leslie | 560 cc515-7 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Alan Johnson) on see...

Alan Johnson | 560 c516 (Link to this contribution)

I wonder if the hon. Lady is coming to the point that Francis, a QC, in the course of a two-year ...

Charlotte Leslie | 560 cc516-9 (Link to this contribution)

I find various elements of the Francis report rather strange, not least that the current chief ex...

Rosie Cooper | 560 c518 (Link to this contribution)

Although I appreciate and endorse everything the hon. Lady has said about accountability and the ...

Charlotte Leslie | 560 c518 (Link to this contribution)

I believe that Francis is right: a regulatory organisation for managers is needed.

We must ...

Andy Burnham | 560 cc518-520 (Link to this contribution)

What happened at Stafford hospital was a betrayal of everything the NHS should stand for. We will...

Steve Barclay | 560 c520 (Link to this contribution)

On the subject of pulling down the shutters, will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that the world...

Andy Burnham | 560 cc520-1 (Link to this contribution)

No, I will not. I was copied into an e-mail by Professor Brian Jarman in mid-March 2010 and, havi...

William Cash | 560 c521 (Link to this contribution)

The shadow Secretary of State and I have been engaged on this issue for a very long time. Will he...

Andy Burnham | 560 c521 (Link to this contribution)

Foundation trust status was not a matter for Ministers. It was a job for Monitor, so it has to an...

Bernard Jenkin | 560 c521 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Andy Burnham | 560 cc521-2 (Link to this contribution)

I will make some progress.

The first point is about implementation. I would like to take th...

Lord Soames of Fletching | 560 c522 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Andy Burnham | 560 cc522-3 (Link to this contribution)

No, I am making some progress.

The second area where more transparency and accountability i...

Andy Burnham | 560 c523 (Link to this contribution)

I will give way one final time to the hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Mr Burley).

Aidan Burley | 560 c523 (Link to this contribution)

I represent the other constituency that is served by Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust. Is t...

Andy Burnham | 560 cc523-4 (Link to this contribution)

No, that is not what I am saying. I commissioned a second-stage—[Interruption.] The hon. Member f...

Bernard Jenkin | 560 c524 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Andy Burnham | 560 c524 (Link to this contribution)

No, I will not.

This is a difficult time in the NHS. The chief executive of the NHS has des...

Jeremy Hunt | 560 cc524-5 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol North West (Charlotte Leslie) on securing th...

William Cash | 560 c525 (Link to this contribution)

As my right hon. Friend knows, I do not agree with his assessment of Sir David Nicholson in this ...

Jeremy Hunt | 560 c525 (Link to this contribution)

I obviously take on board what my hon. Friend says, but I want to move on to other aspects of the...

Jeremy Hunt | 560 c525 (Link to this contribution)

I shall give way on that point, and then I will make some progress.

Lord Soames of Fletching | 560 c525 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the Secretary of State. May I follow up on one point that he raised? He said tha...

Jeremy Hunt | 560 c525 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely agree with my right hon. Friend. We will respond to the Francis report this month, a...

Jeremy Hunt | 560 cc525-6 (Link to this contribution)

I will make some progress and then I will take more interventions.

My response will detail ...

Jeremy Hunt | 560 c526 (Link to this contribution)

I will make some progress and then I will take interventions from both sides of the House.

...

Andy Burnham | 560 c526 (Link to this contribution)

I am listening carefully to the Secretary of State but it is not fair to people in the NHS for hi...

Jeremy Hunt | 560 cc526-7 (Link to this contribution)

I acknowledge the brilliant work done by NHS staff and, contrary to what the right hon. Gentleman...

Alan Johnson | 560 c527 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State is making an interesting speech and there is no way that the Labour party ...

Jeremy Hunt | 560 c527 (Link to this contribution)

I accept that progress was made in the collection of data and that the previous Government set up...

Steve Barclay | 560 c527 (Link to this contribution)

It is correct that improvements were made in the collation of data. In fact, the Dr Foster data w...

Jeremy Hunt | 560 c527 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend speaks wisely. Hospitals display 1,400 different pieces of data, but the question ...

Jeremy Hunt | 560 c528 (Link to this contribution)

I will make some progress.

The question the right hon. Member for Leigh needs to answer is ...

Jeremy Hunt | 560 c528 (Link to this contribution)

I am going to make some progress.

This debate is about accountability. I have been doing th...

Andy Burnham | 560 c528 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Jeremy Hunt | 560 c528 (Link to this contribution)

No, the right hon. Gentleman needs to listen to my point. If Labour is truly committed to the NHS...

Lindsay Hoyle | 560 cc528-9 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I remind Members that there is a seven-minute limit.

1.32 pm

Rosie Cooper | 560 c529 (Link to this contribution)

I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate on our national health service. I resolutely be...

Nick de Bois | 560 c529 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Lady accept, notwithstanding the efforts made in the hospital she mentions, that wh...

Rosie Cooper | 560 cc529-530 (Link to this contribution)

Yes, and if MPs have problems, god help members of the public and patients.

We had to demon...

Baroness Keeley | 560 c530 (Link to this contribution)

A complaints system sounds very useful. When staff knew that complaints were being assessed and r...

Rosie Cooper | 560 cc530-1 (Link to this contribution)

In essence, it encouraged a change of culture. They were not operating in a vacuum, where patient...

Stephen Dorrell | 560 cc531-2 (Link to this contribution)

I want to follow the hon. Member for West Lancashire (Rosie Cooper) on to very similar territory....

Baroness Keeley | 560 c532 (Link to this contribution)

Was the right hon. Gentleman as disturbed as I was to hear that the £500,000 gag at the United Li...

Stephen Dorrell | 560 c532 (Link to this contribution)

The position I take is the one set out in the Francis report, which was explicitly endorsed by Si...

Bernard Jenkin | 560 c532 (Link to this contribution)

I accept my right hon. Friend’s challenge about openness and transparency in the way the health s...

Stephen Dorrell | 560 c532 (Link to this contribution)

I have a lot of sympathy with what my hon. Friend says. The successful delivery of a culture chan...

John Pugh | 560 c532 (Link to this contribution)

My right hon. Friend has mentioned the instinct to protect and to circle the wagons. Would he acc...

Stephen Dorrell | 560 c533 (Link to this contribution)

I agree with my hon. Friend, but I hope he will forgive me if I do not follow him down the road t...

Baroness Hoey | 560 cc533-5 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Charnwood (Mr Dorrell), who speaks with a br...

Lyn Brown | 560 c535 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that the plans for reorganisation of the trusts south of the river need...

Baroness Hoey | 560 c535 (Link to this contribution)

That is precisely what the five Members of Parliament have asked for. Recently, on 28 February, w...

Phillip Lee | 560 cc535-6 (Link to this contribution)

As ever, it is an honour to follow the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey).

Let me begin b...

William Cash | 560 c536 (Link to this contribution)

Was my hon. Friend surprised, as I was, that neither of the Secretaries of State who were in char...

Phillip Lee | 560 c536 (Link to this contribution)

I did find it very strange. In fact, I find the behaviour of both former Secretaries of State str...

William Cash | 560 c537 (Link to this contribution)

May I just correct one thing? The shadow Secretary of State was called to give evidence, but not ...

Phillip Lee | 560 c537 (Link to this contribution)

I am talking about those who were Secretaries of State in the last Administration. In response to...

Andy Burnham | 560 c537 (Link to this contribution)

Surely, as a clinician, the hon. Gentleman would resent the idea of politicians’ interfering in t...

Phillip Lee | 560 c537 (Link to this contribution)

Despite that, nothing changed, did it? The CQC has a terrible reputation in my profession, and to...

Charlotte Leslie | 560 c537 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend share my regret that Opposition Members are groaning in that way? What he is ...

Phillip Lee | 560 c537 (Link to this contribution)

Of course my hon. Friend is right.

Rosie Cooper | 560 c537 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Phillip Lee | 560 cc537-8 (Link to this contribution)

I must get on, I am afraid. I do apologise.

The point I am trying to make is that a certain...

Alan Johnson | 560 c538 (Link to this contribution)

Well, there’s a man who knows all the answers!

It was four years ago on Monday when I apolo...

Alan Johnson | 560 cc538-9 (Link to this contribution)

No, I am not giving way—at least not to the hon. Gentleman. I have heard enough.

This is wh...

William Cash | 560 c539 (Link to this contribution)

I am astonished by the line on accountability that the right hon. Gentleman. He was the Secretary...

Alan Johnson | 560 cc539-540 (Link to this contribution)

On the question of a public inquiry, when Francis reported on his first inquiry, commissioned by ...

Jeremy Hunt | 560 c540 (Link to this contribution)

Does the right hon. Gentleman not accept that the issue was not targets, but it was the failure t...

Alan Johnson | 560 c540 (Link to this contribution)

The Secretary of State is right. Of course there need to be safeguards to ensure any system has a...

Charlotte Leslie | 560 c540 (Link to this contribution)

In some ways I agree with the right hon. Gentleman, in that I think targets and ensuring that thi...

Alan Johnson | 560 cc540-1 (Link to this contribution)

The principal point about targets is that they reduced waiting list times. They changed a situati...

William Cash | 560 c541 (Link to this contribution)

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

Alan Johnson | 560 c541 (Link to this contribution)

No, and I read the hon. Gentleman’s correspondence and it in no way drew attention to what was ha...

Nigel Evans | 560 c541 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Please resume your seat, Mr Cash.

2.19 pm

John Pugh | 560 cc541-3 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate the hon. Member for Bristol North West (Charlotte Leslie) on calling for this deba...

Jim Dowd | 560 cc543-5 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Southport (John Pugh), who always makes thoughtful...

Jeremy Lefroy | 560 cc545-6 (Link to this contribution)

I wish to thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol North West (Charlotte Leslie) and the Backb...

Therese Coffey | 560 c546 (Link to this contribution)

I agree that we do not want to deter people from becoming board members, but surely my hon. Frien...

Jeremy Lefroy | 560 cc546-7 (Link to this contribution)

I would never disagree with that. I entirely agree with what my hon. Friend says, but there is a ...

Valerie Vaz | 560 c547 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) and to pay tribute to him...

Jeremy Lefroy | 560 c547 (Link to this contribution)

I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Lady, but I would like to point out that the same Dr Woodmansey ...

Valerie Vaz | 560 c548 (Link to this contribution)

Let us look at what is going to happen in 18 days’ time when the Health And Social Care Act 2012 ...

John Pugh | 560 c548 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Lady acknowledge that that is what the NHS Redress Act 2006 was supposed to do? I a...

Valerie Vaz | 560 cc548-9 (Link to this contribution)

I cannot answer that; I am not on the Front Bench.

We all agree that there is no place for ...

William Cash | 560 cc549-550 (Link to this contribution)

I believe strongly that we must not only look back properly at what happened at Stafford hospital...

Alan Johnson | 560 c550 (Link to this contribution)

This is a fascinating subject and I am willing to have a look at any correspondence between the h...

William Cash | 560 cc550-1 (Link to this contribution)

We all have lessons to learn about all matters relating to these questions, but the guidelines al...

Andy Burnham | 560 c551 (Link to this contribution)

I am listening carefully to what the hon. Gentleman is saying. It is not strictly true to say tha...

William Cash | 560 cc551-2 (Link to this contribution)

I will let the matter rest at that point for the present purpose.

I move on to the next que...

Ann Clwyd | 560 cc552-3 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate the hon. Member for Bristol North West (Charlotte Leslie) on securing this debate....

Aidan Burley | 560 c553 (Link to this contribution)

May I thank the right hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd) and say how sobering it was to lis...

Andy Burnham | 560 c553 (Link to this contribution)

May I just correct the hon. Gentleman? I was not a Minister in the Department of Health on 1 Febr...

Aidan Burley | 560 cc553-5 (Link to this contribution)

I believe that the right hon. Gentleman’s second point is incorrect; as I understand it, the Secr...

Andy Burnham | 560 c555 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman acknowledge that I asked Robert Francis to conduct two independent inquir...

Aidan Burley | 560 cc555-6 (Link to this contribution)

I will accept, as will, I think, everyone in this House, that the right hon. Gentleman has refuse...

Baroness Keeley | 560 c556 (Link to this contribution)

I was appalled to read in the Francis report on the Mid Staffs inquiry the stories of the unneces...

Alison McGovern | 560 c556 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that scrutiny to make sure that the dignity of mental health patients i...

Baroness Keeley | 560 c557 (Link to this contribution)

Indeed. It is disturbing that the people responsible for advising Ministers on legislation are no...

Jeremy Hunt | 560 c557 (Link to this contribution)

I completely agree with the approach that the hon. Lady is taking. One of the jobs of the new chi...

Baroness Keeley | 560 cc557-8 (Link to this contribution)

That is very good. I hope that the Secretary of State will make that point to the Under-Secretary...

Sarah Wollaston | 560 cc558-560 (Link to this contribution)

I want to start by thanking the vast majority of staff in the NHS, who go to work every day motiv...

William Cash | 560 c560 (Link to this contribution)

Is my hon. Friend aware that Public Concern at Work, to which I referred in my witness statement ...

Sarah Wollaston | 560 c560 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely agree. This is about starting to identify the culture and values of the people we em...

Frank Dobson | 560 cc560-2 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate the hon. Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) on his thoughtful contribution to the...

Steve Barclay | 560 c561 (Link to this contribution)

I join other Members in welcoming the Government’s announcement today of a ban on gagging clauses...

William Cash | 560 c563 (Link to this contribution)

In a conference on 4 October 2012, I understand that Sir David Nicholson said that

“the sen...

Steve Barclay | 560 cc563-4 (Link to this contribution)

I do agree with my hon. Friend, and that does seem at odds with the Government’s welcome commitme...

Aidan Burley | 560 c564 (Link to this contribution)

Is my hon. Friend aware that Mr Yeates left in 2009 with an £80,000 pay-off and a six-figure pens...

Steve Barclay | 560 c564 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is right. Not only did Mr Yeates leave with, I understand, a significant payout, b...

Virendra Sharma | 560 cc564-6 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for allowing me to speak in this important debate. I congratulate all tho...

Steve Baker | 560 cc566-7 (Link to this contribution)

My constituent Edward Maitland was a frail man who could not eat solid food following tongue surg...

Frank Dobson | 560 c567 (Link to this contribution)

Does the hon. Gentleman not agree that one characteristic of involving lawyers is that there is a...

Steve Baker | 560 c567 (Link to this contribution)

Of course I would rather that the money was spent on standards and performance and not on prosecu...

William Cash | 560 c567 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that accountability does reside also with the Secretary of State, as se...

Steve Baker | 560 cc567-8 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his point, although it has been examined at length, so I do n...

Andy Slaughter | 560 cc568-9 (Link to this contribution)

Two NHS stories were leading the news this morning, both of which are relevant to the subject of ...

John McDonnell | 560 c569 (Link to this contribution)

This Dr Goodman chairs my local CCG and tried to force Hillingdon hospital to put £13 million of ...

Andy Slaughter | 560 cc569-571 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful for that. I did a company profile for Harmoni. It revealed that, although he might ...

Baroness Keeley | 560 c571 (Link to this contribution)

A number of months ago, I raised the case of a person who rejoices in the title “NHS head of bran...

Andy Slaughter | 560 c571 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure that all Members will have similar examples. It is an obscenity that millions of pounds...

Nigel Evans | 560 c571 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Eight Members are trying to catch my eye and we will finish at 5 o’clock, with Charlotte L...

Andrew Selous | 560 cc571-2 (Link to this contribution)

The NHS saved my life when I was 24 with an emergency operation in the middle of the night. It wa...

Bernard Jenkin | 560 cc572-4 (Link to this contribution)

I am encouraged by the speech from my hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew ...

Nigel Evans | 560 c574 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure the House wishes Anne Jenkin a speedy recovery.

4.23 pm

Jackie Doyle-Price | 560 cc574-5 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex (Mr Jenkin) and ...

Christopher Pincher | 560 cc575-6 (Link to this contribution)

I would like to make two brief points. First, will my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, w...

Tracey Crouch | 560 cc576-8 (Link to this contribution)

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol North West (Charlotte Leslie) on securing th...

Nick de Bois | 560 cc578-9 (Link to this contribution)

I will never forget the last time I saw my mother. It was three days before the general election ...

Neil Carmichael | 560 cc579-580 (Link to this contribution)

This debate has been thorough and, at times, moving. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for...

Therese Coffey | 560 cc580-1 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to contribute to this important debate, and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Me...

Charlotte Leslie | 560 cc581-2 (Link to this contribution)

This has been an excellent debate. I thank the Secretary of State, who has been here for the dura...

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