UK Parliament / Open data

Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill [Lords]

Debate on bills on Tuesday, 26 February 2013, in the House of Commons, led by David Heath. The answering member was Ian Murray.
New clause 1, discussed with new clauses 2 to 5 debated and withdrawn. New clause 2 negatived on division. Third reading agreed to on question. Bill passed with amendments.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
559 cc183-243 
Session
2012-13
Legislative stage
Third reading and Report stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Philip Davies | 559 c183 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

John Bercow | 559 cc183-4 (Link to this contribution)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 2—Supplier turnover—


Show all contributions (176)
Philip Davies | 559 c184 (Link to this contribution)

New clause 1 stands in my name and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall)....

Mark Tami | 559 c184 (Link to this contribution)

I think that I have raised this point with the hon. Gentleman in the past, but the supermarkets’ ...

Philip Davies | 559 c184 (Link to this contribution)

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is highlighting the misconceptions. The Office of Fair Tradin...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 559 c185 (Link to this contribution)

With all due respect, the hon. Gentleman fails to understand one of the fundamental points that w...

Philip Davies | 559 c185 (Link to this contribution)

I understand the point that the hon. Gentleman makes, but he is basically highlighting that he ca...

Andrew George | 559 c185 (Link to this contribution)

I respect the consistent position that the hon. Gentleman takes on this matter. However, he canno...

Philip Davies | 559 c185 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman, likewise, has taken a consistent view on these matters. In fact, he has been ...

Andrew George | 559 c185 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way again. The Grocery Market Action Group, which ...

Philip Davies | 559 c185 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman keeps making the same assertion. He should take the matter to the Office of Fa...

Andrew Turner | 559 c185 (Link to this contribution)

I am going to talk about something completely different. The Isle of Wight has three locations wh...

Philip Davies | 559 c186 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is a fantastic representative of the people of the Isle of Wight. However, I would...

Eilidh Whiteford | 559 c186 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes the point about the markets in which the supermarkets operate, but does ...

Philip Davies | 559 c186 (Link to this contribution)

No, I do not agree with that at all. I will come on to this point in a bit more detail soon, but ...

Mark Spencer | 559 c186 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend misunderstands the whole supply chain in the UK. There are organisations that prov...

Philip Davies | 559 cc186-7 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point. If he has a big problem with the middleman, so to speak, for e...

Mark Tami | 559 c187 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Philip Davies | 559 c187 (Link to this contribution)

I will in a second, because it was the hon. Gentleman who started me off in discussing this misco...

Mark Tami | 559 c187 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is talking about very large companies, but does he accept that some smaller co...

Philip Davies | 559 c187 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, because he seems to have indicated—I will take it as such—th...

Peter Bone | 559 cc187-8 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way. He has been exceptionally generous throughout his...

Philip Davies | 559 c188 (Link to this contribution)

As ever, my hon. Friend is eagle-eyed. The amendments are the same, but the purpose of tabling tw...

Mark Spencer | 559 c188 (Link to this contribution)

I applaud my hon. Friend’s campaign to get his whites whiter, but he must recognise that there is...

Philip Davies | 559 c188 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and again, I take his intervention as a signal that he will supp...

John Bercow | 559 c188 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I do not wish to interrupt the hon. Gentleman for any length of time, still less to be dis...

Philip Davies | 559 c188 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful, Mr Speaker, and you are absolutely right, as ever. My hon. Friend the Member for S...

Mark Spencer | 559 c188 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend will recognise that putting a figure on turnover as suggested in the new clauses w...

Philip Davies | 559 c188 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend appears to be indicating that he prefers new clause 2 to new clause 1, which furth...

Justin Tomlinson | 559 c189 (Link to this contribution)

On the evidence of what has happened so far, has the current groceries code been well utilised si...

Philip Davies | 559 c189 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend asks a good question and strikes at the heart of why the Bill is a nonsense. There...

Andrew George | 559 c189 (Link to this contribution)

As the competition authorities have repeatedly found, there is a significant climate of fear in t...

Philip Davies | 559 c189 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, but again, I do not want to get on to parts of the Bill that...

Christopher Chope | 559 c189 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point. Can he illustrate to the House what he thinks would be £1 bill...

Philip Davies | 559 cc189-190 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point, which strikes at the heart of new clauses 1 and 2. We can argu...

Mark Spencer | 559 c190 (Link to this contribution)

Again, my hon. Friend misunderstands the concept of what the groceries code adjudicator is intend...

Philip Davies | 559 c190 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point, and he seems to make the point that the Bill is totally unnece...

Andy Sawford | 559 c190 (Link to this contribution)

I am listening carefully to the hon. Gentleman’s point about the role of the courts. Does he acce...

Philip Davies | 559 cc190-1 (Link to this contribution)

This is a red letter day for me, because I now have another volunteer to support my new clause 1 ...

Mark Spencer | 559 c191 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend must also recognise that the role of the groceries code adjudicator is as a refere...

Philip Davies | 559 c191 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes his point. As it happens, I am a Conservative. I know it is an old-fashioned...

Philip Davies | 559 c191 (Link to this contribution)

I will in a second. I will deal with this intervention and then give way to the hon. Gentleman. M...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 559 c191 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way; he is being very generous. New clauses 1, 2 and 3 lay ...

Philip Davies | 559 c192 (Link to this contribution)

I have no doubt that the hon. Gentleman does not believe in the free market—that is why he sits o...

Mark Tami | 559 c192 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has painted a picture, which no doubt he actually believes in, where the super...

Philip Davies | 559 c192 (Link to this contribution)

In a Westminster Hall debate I heard one of my hon. Friends, who is favour of the Bill, make it a...

Philip Davies | 559 cc192-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am going to make some progress. These are the same Members who were happy for the debate on thr...

Mark Menzies | 559 c193 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend’s new clauses—on the £500 million and £1 billion thresholds—are incredibly sensibl...

Philip Davies | 559 c193 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who knows a great deal about this subject.

If people want ...

Eilidh Whiteford | 559 c193 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman’s argument, to which I am listening carefully, seems to have been predicated o...

Philip Davies | 559 c193 (Link to this contribution)

I will try to put it more simply for the hon. Lady’s benefit: I do not agree with the Bill, as I ...

Philip Davies | 559 c194 (Link to this contribution)

I thought my right hon. Friend was in favour of farmers, but he is obviously in favour of Esso.

James Paice | 559 c194 (Link to this contribution)

It pains me to have to point out to my hon. Friend that petrol is not a grocery and is not covere...

Philip Davies | 559 c194 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. Perhaps then we can move on to Procter & Gamble. Would it ...

Mark Spencer | 559 c194 (Link to this contribution)

Again, my hon. Friend is misrepresenting the role of the groceries code adjudicator. When a deal ...

Philip Davies | 559 c194 (Link to this contribution)

So my hon. Friend does not think that Procter & Gamble is big enough to look after itself. He thi...

Justin Tomlinson | 559 c194 (Link to this contribution)

We are on the side of David, not Goliath. It seems eminently sensible that my hon. Friend’s new c...

Philip Davies | 559 cc194-5 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. We were told that that was exactly the purpose of the Bill in th...

John Bercow | 559 c195 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I am slightly concerned that the hon. Gentleman has been diverted from the path of virtue ...

John Bercow | 559 c195 (Link to this contribution)

Just before that, I call Mr Huw Irranca-Davies on a point of order.

Huw Irranca-Davies | 559 c195 (Link to this contribution)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. It might be of some help to the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip ...

John Bercow | 559 c195 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I am sure he is seeking to be helpful, but I thought I had m...

Philip Davies | 559 c195 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful, Mr Speaker, but people ought to be aware that the Bill leaves great scope for the ...

Peter Bone | 559 c195 (Link to this contribution)

We have very limited time, because the House agreed to the programme motion, so perhaps we could ...

Philip Davies | 559 c196 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is for ever an optimist, but I am afraid that, in my experience, logic is not usua...

Christopher Chope | 559 c196 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend refers to Walkers snack foods. Potatoes are among the raw materials that that comp...

Philip Davies | 559 c196 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes a good point. The Bill would still allow Walkers to screw the potato supplie...

Mark Spencer | 559 c196 (Link to this contribution)

I will happily challenge my hon. Friend on that point. Those large companies have the ability to ...

Philip Davies | 559 c196 (Link to this contribution)

We all know that that is the case, but my point is that if companies such as Heinz, Walkers, Nest...

Philip Davies | 559 c197 (Link to this contribution)

I will let the hon. Gentleman explain why he wants to add to the bottom line of those multination...

Andrew George | 559 c197 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is, in truth, arguing for the abolition of all the competition authorities. Th...

John Bercow | 559 c197 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I am loth to interrupt the hon. Gentleman in mid-flow, but interventions seem to be becomi...

Philip Davies | 559 c197 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to you, Mr Speaker.

The hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George) misreads the ...

Justin Tomlinson | 559 c197 (Link to this contribution)

The adjudicator will clearly have finite amounts of time and resources. Surely it would be better...

Philip Davies | 559 cc197-8 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is absolutely right; that is the purpose of the Bill. The big multinational compan...

Philip Davies | 559 c198 (Link to this contribution)

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman is about to tell us.

Ian Murray | 559 c198 (Link to this contribution)

We have all been listening carefully to the hon. Gentleman, but I want to make two important poin...

Philip Davies | 559 cc198-9 (Link to this contribution)

That is an extraordinary intervention. The hon. Gentleman is saying that he is not minded to supp...

Peter Bone | 559 c199 (Link to this contribution)

I am considering whether to support new clause 3. Am I right in understanding that if, in seven y...

Philip Davies | 559 cc199-200 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is right. He knows as well as I do that if such a sunset clause is not introduced,...

John McDonnell | 559 cc200-1 (Link to this contribution)

I shall provide a brief background to amendment 3 and to the other amendments tabled in my name.<...

Andy Sawford | 559 c201 (Link to this contribution)

When Labour Members tried in Committee to strengthen the relationship between the adjudicator and...

John McDonnell | 559 cc201-2 (Link to this contribution)

I followed the dialogue that took place in Committee and read the reports of it. That has been on...

James Paice | 559 cc202-3 (Link to this contribution)

I listened carefully to what was said by my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies). I...

Justin Tomlinson | 559 c203 (Link to this contribution)

That is the point of new clause 2. It would focus time, resources and attention on the suppliers ...

James Paice | 559 cc203-4 (Link to this contribution)

I will come to that specific point, but let me first deal with the more philosophical point raise...

Philip Davies | 559 c204 (Link to this contribution)

I will ignore the nonsensical—and, to be frank, idiotic—point that this measure will be of benefi...

James Paice | 559 c204 (Link to this contribution)

I do not know, because it has not been made public. That is a complete irrelevance, however. It i...

Gavin Shuker | 559 c204 (Link to this contribution)

The right hon. Gentleman acquired extensive knowledge of the food sector in his time as a DEFRA M...

James Paice | 559 c204 (Link to this contribution)

The honest answer is that, no, I did not come across such evidence, but it may well have been hap...

Andrew George | 559 c204 (Link to this contribution)

I entirely endorse my right hon. Friend’s comments. Following the logic of the arguments advanced...

James Paice | 559 c205 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend is entirely right.

Peter Bone | 559 c205 (Link to this contribution)

I have been listening to my right hon. Friend’s speech very carefully, as it serves to balance th...

James Paice | 559 c205 (Link to this contribution)

It is entirely for the Government to decide whether to accept new clause 2. It does not cause me ...

Ian Murray | 559 cc205-6 (Link to this contribution)

It is a great pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for South East Cambridgeshire (Sir James P...

Lindsay Hoyle | 559 c206 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Mr George, I am sure that you are not listening to a message while you are in the Chamber....

Ian Murray | 559 cc206-8 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

We know the origins of the code came from the Competition Com...

David Heath | 559 c208 (Link to this contribution)

It would be helpful if the hon. Gentleman made clear his belief, which is certainly my belief, th...

Ian Murray | 559 cc208-9 (Link to this contribution)

I agree 100% with the Minister. We hope that by having the adjudicator reporting annually to the ...

Mark Spencer | 559 c210 (Link to this contribution)

I shall not detain the House for long, but I want to make some general comments about some of the...

Philip Davies | 559 c210 (Link to this contribution)

My amendment does not seek to restrict the remit only to very small suppliers but to suppliers wi...

Mark Spencer | 559 c210 (Link to this contribution)

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his intervention, as it allows me to clarify that that is my ...

Justin Tomlinson | 559 c210 (Link to this contribution)

Surely the new clause will send a crystal clear message to the adjudicator, when they take on the...

Mark Spencer | 559 c210 (Link to this contribution)

Again, there is a misunderstanding of what will happen. We are talking about very large companies...

Andrew George | 559 c211 (Link to this contribution)

I support the arguments that my hon. Friend is making. He knows that this is a dynamic and creati...

Mark Spencer | 559 c211 (Link to this contribution)

I recognise that. I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman, who has worked on this matter since before...

George Eustice | 559 c211 (Link to this contribution)

We have had plenty of time to understand how supermarkets deal with their suppliers and it is pre...

Mark Spencer | 559 c211 (Link to this contribution)

I am happy to agree with my hon. Friend and I pay tribute to the work that he has done to bring t...

David Nuttall | 559 c211 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that, regardless of whether there have been complaints, the existence o...

Mark Spencer | 559 c211 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend makes an interesting point. We could make the same argument across government; if ...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 559 cc211-2 (Link to this contribution)

I am pleased to speak in this debate and I welcome the speeches that have been made so far. I did...

Philip Davies | 559 c212 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman seemed to be criticising me for moving my new clause at great length. Does he ...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 559 cc212-3 (Link to this contribution)

I am in no way being critical of speaking at great length. I can extemporise for the nation mysel...

Justin Tomlinson | 559 c213 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman is making some excellent points, and I want to support them by gently remindin...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 559 c213 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman has intrigued me. Let us say that a larger operator over the turnover steps fo...

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick | 559 c213 (Link to this contribution)

Does my hon. Friend agree that there is a need to protect all within the food supply chain? I rep...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 559 cc213-4 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Lady is right. She speaks to the spirit and the letter of the amendments, to which I wil...

David Heath | 559 c214 (Link to this contribution)

It is important that people understand what that advice is and what the data suggest. It has been...

Lindsay Hoyle | 559 c215 (Link to this contribution)

Order. I am sure that we do not want to continue this debate and that the hon. Gentleman is despe...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 559 c215 (Link to this contribution)

Absolutely. I make the point to illustrate how important this amendment is in terms of food safet...

Lindsay Hoyle | 559 c215 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Do not test my patience any more. We can both agree that you are desperate to speak to the...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 559 c215 (Link to this contribution)

I am happy that I have made the case extensively.

James Paice | 559 c215 (Link to this contribution)

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Huw Irranca-Davies | 559 c215 (Link to this contribution)

I would love to give way to the right hon. Gentleman as long as he does not seek to draw me in to...

James Paice | 559 c215 (Link to this contribution)

I do not know why on earth the hon. Gentleman thinks that I might want to draw him into confronta...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 559 cc215-6 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for not tempting me to infringe the guidance you have given, Mr ...

Christopher Chope | 559 c216 (Link to this contribution)

I support new clause 2. In most people’s eyes the Bill was designed essentially to protect the UK...

Peter Bone | 559 c216 (Link to this contribution)

I am sure my hon. Friend is going to explain new clause 4 in more detail. I am troubled by the wa...

Christopher Chope | 559 c216 (Link to this contribution)

My hon. Friend anticipates the argument that I am going to put. I was in discussion about whether...

Lindsay Hoyle | 559 c216 (Link to this contribution)

Order. May I gently remind Parliamentary Private Secretaries —[Interruption.] Order. A Member is ...

Christopher Chope | 559 c217 (Link to this contribution)

The only comfort that I take is that my remarks are evidently creating such confusion on the Fron...

Peter Bone | 559 cc217-8 (Link to this contribution)

I shall be brief, because under the programme motion we have only half an hour left to discuss th...

Jo Swinson | 559 c218 (Link to this contribution)

I thank all the hon. Members who have contributed to the debate on this series of amendments and ...

Philip Davies | 559 c219 (Link to this contribution)

Is the Minister saying that she is incapable of making her own decision and exercising her own ju...

Jo Swinson | 559 c219 (Link to this contribution)

No, but I think that it is very important to listen to Parliament, as I have outlined. Indeed, I ...

Peter Bone | 559 c220 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is quite wrong on that. I am not coming from that position; I came to that view afte...

Jo Swinson | 559 c220 (Link to this contribution)

I do not believe that is the case. The adjudicator will obviously be able to make their own asses...

Ian Murray | 559 c220 (Link to this contribution)

The Minister is making a compelling case for the Bill, which we all support. I wonder whether she...

Jo Swinson | 559 cc220-3 (Link to this contribution)

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. The Competition Commission was very clear that innov...

John McDonnell | 559 c221 (Link to this contribution)

Does that mean, then, that the Minister can now place on the record that the Government expect th...

Jo Swinson | 559 c221 (Link to this contribution)

I absolutely give that assurance. If a body such as the OFT receives information, particularly fr...

Peter Bone | 559 c221 (Link to this contribution)

Is my hon. Friend at all contrite about the fact that we will not reach the second and third grou...

Jo Swinson | 559 cc221-4 (Link to this contribution)

No, I am not. We have had an interesting debate, although I suspect it could have been more conci...

Philip Davies | 559 c224 (Link to this contribution)

We have had a good debate. I am grateful to my hon. Friends who have supported my proposals. I am...

David Heath | 559 c236 (Link to this contribution)

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

Before I go any further, I wish to...

David Heath | 559 c236 (Link to this contribution)

Of course I will. I was going to say something nice about the hon. Gentleman later, but he may pr...

Adrian Bailey | 559 c236 (Link to this contribution)

I hope that my remarks will not preclude that. In my capacity as Chair of the Select Committee on...

Nigel Evans | 559 c236 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Before the Minister answers that rather lengthy intervention, bordering on a speech, I rem...

David Heath | 559 cc236-7 (Link to this contribution)

Thank you for that timely reminder, Mr Deputy Speaker. I shall be brief in my list of thanks.

...
David Heath | 559 cc237-8 (Link to this contribution)

I could not possibly; it would embarrass the hon. Member for Ogmore too much.

Now that I ha...

Nigel Evans | 559 c238 (Link to this contribution)

Order. Before I call Ian Murray, I should say that a lot of hon. Members want to speak, and the d...

Ian Murray | 559 cc238-9 (Link to this contribution)

I will be quick, but let me start by returning the thanks to the Front-Bench team—the Minister of...

Ian Murray | 559 c239 (Link to this contribution)

Sherwood, of course. I was not even in the right part of the country. The hon. Gentleman used the...

Mark Spencer | 559 cc239-240 (Link to this contribution)

I shall just take 60 seconds to add my congratulations to those on the Front Bench for introducin...

Albert Owen | 559 c240 (Link to this contribution)

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Sherwood (Mr Spencer). The Minister was right to c...

James Paice | 559 cc240-1 (Link to this contribution)

I add my congratulations to everyone involved from the early days, including my hon. Friend the M...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 559 c241 (Link to this contribution)

I applaud the Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the hon. Mem...

Jo Swinson | 559 c241 (Link to this contribution)

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way in his thanks to me to allow me to put on the record my...

Huw Irranca-Davies | 559 cc241-2 (Link to this contribution)

I am glad I gave way to give the Minister the opportunity to convey her thanks to the officials.<...

Andrew George | 559 c242 (Link to this contribution)

Following the contribution from the hon. Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies), may I say that d...

Philip Davies | 559 c242 (Link to this contribution)

What a nauseating love-in! We have this ridiculous idea that the adjudicator will be good for sup...

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