Local Government Finance Bill. Committee stage third day. Clauses 8 to 16 agreed to, with clause 10 agreed to as amended. New clause 11 negatived on division (225 votes to 309). Schedule 4 agreed to as amended. Bill reported with amendments (Bill 303).
Local Government Finance Bill
Debate on bills
and
Committee of the Whole House (HC) on Tuesday, 31 January 2012,
in the House of Commons.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
539 c716-92 
Session
2010-12
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Local Government Finance Bill. As amended in the Committee.
Tuesday, 31 January 2012
Bills
House of Commons
Tuesday, 31 January 2012
Bills
House of Commons
Local Government Finance Bill. Explanatory Notes Bill 265-EN also published.
Monday, 19 December 2011
Bills
House of Commons
Monday, 19 December 2011
Bills
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Lord Beamish | 539 c764-5 (Link to this contribution)
I was going to say that it was a pleasure to follow the hon. Gentleman, but his contribution kept ge...
David Ward | 539 c764 (Link to this contribution)
Not at all. I anticipate that any local authority worth its salt would have regard to all the things...
Show all contributions (193)
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c765 (Link to this contribution)
Order. That intervention is not relevant to the amendments.
David Ward | 539 c765 (Link to this contribution)
I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman carried out a full impact assessment before voting to get rid of...
Lord Barwell | 539 c767 (Link to this contribution)
That's localism.
Lord Beamish | 539 c766-7 (Link to this contribution)
Exactly. But the Secretary of State is also highly political, and the Bill does not take into accoun...
Lord Beamish | 539 c765-6 (Link to this contribution)
Interventions have to be relevant, as Mr Hood points out, but I would not stand for election, as the...
Helen Jones | 539 c766 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend also agree that the Secretary of State's attitude to poorer people in our commun...
Lord Beamish | 539 c766 (Link to this contribution)
The Secretary of State's track record is there to see. On his edicts, he talks very much about local...
George Hollingbery | 539 c782 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful, Ms Primarolo. As I was saying, there is clearly some sense in local authorities being...
George Hollingbery | 539 c782 (Link to this contribution)
It is a great pleasure finally to be able to speak to amendment 72. I have missed a Select Committee...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c782 (Link to this contribution)
Order. The Committee needs to be a little quieter, so that we can hear Mr Hollingbery moving his ame...
George Hollingbery | 539 c781 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move amendment 72, page 5, line 26, at end insert—
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c781-2 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Amendment 52, in schedule 4, page 47, lin...
Lord Stunell | 539 c777 (Link to this contribution)
I am looking for a nod somewhere, but let us stick with this House.
Amendment 71 states that the Se...
Helen Jones | 539 c777 (Link to this contribution)
Yet again we have heard a reply of the most astonishing complacency from the Minister, which appears...
Lord Stunell | 539 c777 (Link to this contribution)
Thank you, Ms Primarolo.
As I was saying, IT suppliers are considering possible changes to existing...
John Healey | 539 c777 (Link to this contribution)
I must say that it is welcome to hear the Minister say that the Government are committing themselves...
Lord Stunell | 539 c776 (Link to this contribution)
That is an important consideration for local authorities when they look at the speed and pace of cha...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c776 (Link to this contribution)
Order. It is getting very noisy. If Members wish to speak to each other, it would be a good idea to ...
Heidi Alexander | 539 c774 (Link to this contribution)
With the best will in the world, is not the problem that, with £490 million less to administer in co...
Lord Stunell | 539 c774-6 (Link to this contribution)
If I can correct just one small point, the figure is £420 million for England, although the sum for ...
John Healey | 539 c776 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister talked about the IT suppliers and working to ensure that their new systems are in place...
Graham P Jones | 539 c772 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister give way?
Lord Stunell | 539 c772 (Link to this contribution)
No, I will not give way. I am just going to make a little progress.
The hon. Lady said that we did ...
Helen Jones | 539 c772 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry, but the Minister cannot have it both ways either. The Secretary of State is taking the p...
Lord Stunell | 539 c773-4 (Link to this contribution)
Unfortunately, the hon. Lady has partly misread the scheme. Paragraph 2(8) of schedule 4 provides th...
Lord Beamish | 539 c772 (Link to this contribution)
I could not afford it.
Mike Hancock | 539 c772 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure the hon. Gentleman could; he is being far too modest.
On the hon. Gentleman's point about...
Lord Stunell | 539 c772 (Link to this contribution)
Again, we have had an interesting and wide-ranging debate. I have to say that the amendments we have...
Lord Beamish | 539 c771 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman think I should get a sponsorship deal with the borough of Wokingham?
Mike Hancock | 539 c772 (Link to this contribution)
I honestly believe that the hon. Gentleman is in the market for a property in Wokingham, or if not W...
Lord Beamish | 539 c770 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend makes a good point. The Bill is being rushed through. If we were considering a ...
Mike Hancock | 539 c770-1 (Link to this contribution)
Once again, I am concerned about the lack of time, because I would have loved to have had a proper d...
Lord Beamish | 539 c769 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend raises a very good point, because we will have different schemes in different a...
Ian Mearns | 539 c769 (Link to this contribution)
There are loads in Gateshead.
Lord Beamish | 539 c769 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend says that the figure is 56%. Only 2% of properties in Surrey are in band A. The abili...
John Healey | 539 c769 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is talking about plugging the hole caused by the 10% cut and highlighting the feeble ...
Lord Beamish | 539 c769 (Link to this contribution)
Obviously, and in other places. They will fill the black hole. We could also increase council tax. H...
Ian Mearns | 539 c769 (Link to this contribution)
Fifty-six per cent.
Ian Mearns | 539 c768 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend emphasises the differences between local authority areas, and he has compared Durham ...
Lord Beamish | 539 c768 (Link to this contribution)
I will, and that is why it is important to have in the Bill the criteria by which authorities will d...
Helen Jones | 539 c768 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that councils will face a further penalty through the cost of appeals once...
Lord Beamish | 539 c768-9 (Link to this contribution)
I agree, and that will have a disproportionate effect on northern councils such as County Durham. It...
George Howarth | 539 c769 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend the Member for Warrington North (Helen Jones) just made the point that councils could...
Lord Beamish | 539 c767 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman says that that is localism, but it will lead to real issues, especially if the Se...
Mike Hancock | 539 c768 (Link to this contribution)
You're going to buy a house there, aren't you?
Lord Beamish | 539 c768 (Link to this contribution)
I am hoping to be made a freeman. I have given it enough plugs in these debates.
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c768 (Link to this contribution)
Order. I am sure second home preferences are a matter for some other debate, but not for this one.
Lord Beamish | 539 c768 (Link to this contribution)
In the 2010-11 financial year, Wokingham had 5,159 people claiming council tax benefit, which was 3....
George Hollingbery | 539 c783 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention, in which he makes a reasonable point...
John Healey | 539 c783 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is making a persuasive case, which is consistent with pooling principles elsewher...
David Ward | 539 c764 (Link to this contribution)
Those Members who sat on the Localism Bill Committee will not be too surprised by what I have to say...
Helen Jones | 539 c764 (Link to this contribution)
Is the hon. Gentleman seriously arguing that local authorities should not have regard to people empl...
Ian Mearns | 539 c762 (Link to this contribution)
I have just had a brainwave about where an awful lot of these second homes that will fill the gap wi...
Alex Cunningham | 539 c763-4 (Link to this contribution)
I have known my hon. Friend for many years, and I am used to his brainwaves, which normally apply to...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c752-3 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Amendment 49, page 5, line 17, at end ins...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c752 (Link to this contribution)
In view of the debate that we have just had, and the nature of the next two groups of amendments, I ...
Helen Jones | 539 c752 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move amendment 66, page 5, line 6, at end insert—
Lord Stunell | 539 c747 (Link to this contribution)
No, I absolutely do not accept that. The average reduction if local authorities do not put any extra...
Lord Beamish | 539 c756 (Link to this contribution)
Did the Minister not make it clear earlier that he ““did not get it”” when he dismissed a 16% decrea...
Helen Jones | 539 c756 (Link to this contribution)
I could not have put it better myself. An especially ridiculous aspect of the proposals is that the ...
Heidi Alexander | 539 c755-6 (Link to this contribution)
Some people who pay no council tax at present may find themselves paying it for the first time, whil...
Helen Jones | 539 c754-5 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is, of course, right. In trying to remedy the problem, the most disadvantaged council...
Lord Beamish | 539 c754 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that, contrary to the impression given by the Minister in his winding-up s...
Helen Jones | 539 c757-9 (Link to this contribution)
They will not help those people, and they will not help councils. We discussed the financial risks f...
Helen Jones | 539 c756-7 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend has hit the nail on the head. The problem is a lack of understanding of the fact that...
Helen Jones | 539 c757 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is right; indeed, Government Members expressed similar reservations during our earlie...
Mark Tami | 539 c757 (Link to this contribution)
It is the people my hon. Friend has mentioned—those who are on the poverty line and do not have any ...
Alex Cunningham | 539 c761-2 (Link to this contribution)
I support the amendments on the impact of the scheme. This debate is about people's lives, about fam...
Annette Brooke | 539 c760-1 (Link to this contribution)
I wish to make some brief comments and refer to the impact assessment on the localisation of council...
Alex Cunningham | 539 c762 (Link to this contribution)
That is an interesting question, which I wish I could answer. I do not see many empty homes, never m...
Lord Beamish | 539 c762 (Link to this contribution)
In his response to the previous debate, the Minister suggested that gap could be filled by councils ...
Helen Jones | 539 c759-60 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is right, but many different authorities will be affected. We heard earlier from Memb...
Lord Beamish | 539 c759 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend also agree that the Bill's provisions will hit a lot of northern cities—includin...
David Ward | 539 c742 (Link to this contribution)
It does not really matter because we are talking about local ramifications—how the measure affects e...
Lord Beamish | 539 c742 (Link to this contribution)
No it does not.
David Ward | 539 c742 (Link to this contribution)
We are in the same position as we were in last week, in that we are discussing a measure to which mo...
George Howarth | 539 c741-2 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes his point well with his experience of that Committee sitting. I absolutely agre...
Ian Mearns | 539 c741 (Link to this contribution)
This morning at the Select Committee on Education, I asked the Secretary of State for Education whet...
Lord Beamish | 539 c742 (Link to this contribution)
But that statement was wrong!
David Ward | 539 c742 (Link to this contribution)
Let me just get on. I want to develop my thoughts if I may.
Lord Beamish | 539 c742 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
David Ward | 539 c742 (Link to this contribution)
Whether the hon. Gentleman believes it or not, that is what we are told. The real issue is the local...
David Ward | 539 c742 (Link to this contribution)
No. Just sit and listen.
Lord Beamish | 539 c741 (Link to this contribution)
Will my hon. Friend give way?
George Howarth | 539 c740-1 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman, who is always fair and reasonable, makes a fair and reasonable point. I hope tha...
Robert Syms | 539 c739 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Gentleman is making a powerful point, but is it not more likely that, rather than hav...
George Howarth | 539 c739 (Link to this contribution)
Yes. There might occasionally be disputes about the scale, but every demographer recognises that peo...
John Healey | 539 c739 (Link to this contribution)
The effect is uncertain, but it is possible to make some projections. In my authority of Rotherham—a...
George Howarth | 539 c739 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is right. That underscores the point that he and others made earlier: to some ext...
Lord Beamish | 539 c740 (Link to this contribution)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that those same people will also be affected by the Welfare Reform B...
George Howarth | 539 c739-40 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend makes a strong point, which I hope to tackle shortly.
Currently, many people, ...
Robert Syms | 539 c740 (Link to this contribution)
Another question is whether we can differentiate council tax payers from non-council tax payers. Wha...
George Howarth | 539 c740 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. If he bears with me, I will cover precisely that point shortly in t...
George Howarth | 539 c741 (Link to this contribution)
I will give way in a minute. I just want to finish my point. The measure in the Bill combined with o...
Nick Raynsford | 539 c746 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister give way?
Lord Stunell | 539 c745-6 (Link to this contribution)
I want to make some progress.
It is essential that local authorities plan their schemes carefully a...
George Howarth | 539 c745 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister just asserted that the Secretary of State does not have any locus in this system. Will ...
Lord Stunell | 539 c745 (Link to this contribution)
I give way to the right hon. Member for Knowsley (Mr Howarth).
Lord Stunell | 539 c746-7 (Link to this contribution)
Of course, it would be sensible to debate that matter when we come to the next group of amendments, ...
Clive Betts | 539 c747 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister talks about working with local authorities. Presumably the Government have a view about...
Lord Stunell | 539 c746 (Link to this contribution)
In a moment. I realise that I failed to give way to the right hon. Gentleman earlier. I will do so i...
Nick Raynsford | 539 c746 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for finally giving way. He previously said that the Secretary of State did not ...
David Ward | 539 c743-4 (Link to this contribution)
There are, actually, several hundred second homes in Bradford.
If authorities cannot generate fundi...
Lord Beamish | 539 c743 (Link to this contribution)
There are a lot of second homes in Bradford.
David Ward | 539 c744 (Link to this contribution)
I am going to. Unlike the hon. Gentleman, I am not a party lackey. Sometimes, we have to vote the ri...
Lord Beamish | 539 c744 (Link to this contribution)
Vote against it.
David Ward | 539 c742 (Link to this contribution)
I sincerely doubt it, but thank you, Miss McIntosh.
Members have noted that if pensioners are prote...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c742 (Link to this contribution)
Order. Will the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) contain himself?
Helen Jones | 539 c742 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Stunell | 539 c744 (Link to this contribution)
We have had a wide-ranging debate, and I shall do my best to respond to the key arguments made, quit...
Helen Jones | 539 c744 (Link to this contribution)
First, does the Minister accept that the increases in council tax benefit have been driven not by an...
Lord Stunell | 539 c744-5 (Link to this contribution)
On the first point, I agree that it was due to the fact that council tax doubled while Labour was in...
Helen Jones | 539 c729 (Link to this contribution)
I could give such figures to the hon. Gentleman, but I am afraid that I do not have them at the mome...
George Hollingbery | 539 c729 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Lady agree that the spending power of each of those councils is incredibly different a...
Helen Jones | 539 c729-30 (Link to this contribution)
I do not think that is correct. We will debate that with the next group of amendments, but I will ma...
Lord Beamish | 539 c729 (Link to this contribution)
Although £55.1 million a year is paid out in council tax benefit in County Durham, less than £3 mill...
Helen Jones | 539 c729 (Link to this contribution)
That makes the point very well.
Annette Brooke | 539 c731 (Link to this contribution)
At this point in time, it is easy to put such amendments forward, but one has to identify where the ...
Lord Beamish | 539 c731 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Lady talks about constituents going to her surgery. When they start going in 2013, after th...
Annette Brooke | 539 c730 (Link to this contribution)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Crausby.
On the first stream, we are focusing...
Nick Raynsford | 539 c730-1 (Link to this contribution)
I am finding it a little difficult to reconcile most of the hon. Lady's speech and, in particular, h...
Annette Brooke | 539 c731 (Link to this contribution)
At this stage, we are debating, and I hope all trying to be constructive about, the direction in whi...
Mike Hancock | 539 c738 (Link to this contribution)
I agree entirely. Some hon. Members like me, have close-knit communities that are right next to comm...
Mike Hancock | 539 c737-8 (Link to this contribution)
The Secretary of State will be making a grave error of judgment if he thinks he is going to get away...
Robert Syms | 539 c738 (Link to this contribution)
I am listening carefully to the hon. Gentleman's passionate speech. Clearly, apart from potential co...
Mike Hancock | 539 c736-7 (Link to this contribution)
May I say how nice it is to see you in the Chair, Mr Crausby?
I wish to raise my concern about the ...
Lord Beamish | 539 c737 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman not understand that the Secretary of State is a highly political individual ...
John Healey | 539 c735-6 (Link to this contribution)
It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Crausby.
I rise to support the amendment...
Lord Beamish | 539 c739 (Link to this contribution)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the scheme will disproportionately affect constituencies such a...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c738 (Link to this contribution)
I call Gerald Howarth.
George Howarth | 539 c738-9 (Link to this contribution)
George—not only a different party, but an entirely different politics, Miss McIntosh.
It is a pleas...
Robert Syms | 539 c731 (Link to this contribution)
There also needs to be consultation between local authorities. The hon. Lady represents two or three...
Annette Brooke | 539 c731-2 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, indeed. Such local authorities will need to talk to one another, and it will be difficult to ge...
Helen Jones | 539 c732 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Lady accept, however, that the second homes premium and, even, the empty homes premium...
Annette Brooke | 539 c732 (Link to this contribution)
The very point I was making is that there are variations throughout the whole country, so there need...
Annette Brooke | 539 c731 (Link to this contribution)
I have given way several times, and I shall proceed in order to retain the flow of my speech. There ...
Lord Beamish | 539 c732-3 (Link to this contribution)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Crausby.
What we have seen from the hon. Memb...
Mike Hancock | 539 c733 (Link to this contribution)
I do not agree with the benefits being devolved to local authorities, so what does the hon. Gentlema...
Lord Beamish | 539 c733-4 (Link to this contribution)
I would have no problem with a national scheme that was administered locally. The current system wit...
George Hollingbery | 539 c735 (Link to this contribution)
Some persuasive points have been made in the debate so far and I urge the Government to take them on...
George Hollingbery | 539 c729 (Link to this contribution)
Purely for the purposes of investigation, does the hon. Lady have any figures—I understand that ther...
Lord Barwell | 539 c728 (Link to this contribution)
indicated dissent.
Nick Raynsford | 539 c718-9 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. Any prudent local authority treasurer who takes account ...
Mike Hancock | 539 c718 (Link to this contribution)
Let me first declare my interest as one who is still a member of a local authority.
Is the right ho...
Nick Raynsford | 539 c718 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes a very good point. Frankly, I am very surprised indeed that Lib Dem members of ...
Lord Beamish | 539 c717-8 (Link to this contribution)
On that point, does my right hon. Friend agree that the Government know exactly what they are doing ...
Nick Raynsford | 539 c717 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes an important point about the assessment of need. The framework imposed by the G...
Nick Raynsford | 539 c716-7 (Link to this contribution)
Amendment 79 and the linked amendments, 78 and 80, aim to put this part of the Bill, which devolves ...
Andrew Gwynne | 539 c717 (Link to this contribution)
Do not the Government's proposals introduce some quite substantial financial risks for local authori...
Nick Raynsford | 539 c716 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move amendment 79, page 4, line 35, at end insert—
Speaker | 539 c716 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Amendment 85, page 5, line 19, at end ins...
Clive Betts | 539 c721-2 (Link to this contribution)
Of course it will, unless the Government are saying that those people should be exempt as well. To w...
Lord Beamish | 539 c721 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that one problem that the Government seem to ignore is that a lot of the p...
Clive Betts | 539 c722 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right—the figure of £320 a year or £6 a week is an average, and the...
Mike Hancock | 539 c722 (Link to this contribution)
The information from the LGA is very helpful, but it is an average. In some areas, the cut will be f...
Clive Betts | 539 c721 (Link to this contribution)
Absolutely. We are told that vulnerable people—perhaps people on very low incomes with children—are ...
Clive Betts | 539 c720-1 (Link to this contribution)
I could not have put it better myself; that is precisely right—there will be a perverse incentive. I...
Andrew Gwynne | 539 c721 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. Is it not worrying that if one section of society is to be ...
Bob Blackman | 539 c719 (Link to this contribution)
Having read amendment 78, I assume that if it were passed any losses on collection of council tax wo...
Graham Stuart | 539 c720 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman confirm my understanding that in a rural coastal area such as the one I repr...
Clive Betts | 539 c723 (Link to this contribution)
Absolutely. Anyone involved in developing a new system, consulting on it, explaining it and getting ...
Alison Seabeck | 539 c723 (Link to this contribution)
It was interesting to hear my hon. Friend mention Capita, which was at the wrong end of the car cras...
Clive Betts | 539 c724-5 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend is right to say that the time scale is incredibly tight and there are so many p...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 539 c724 (Link to this contribution)
Order. We are in danger of straying into the next group. Please keep in order, Mr Betts.
John Healey | 539 c724 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend talks about the tight time scale and the argument for the Government seriously consid...
Clive Betts | 539 c722-3 (Link to this contribution)
I do not want to get into a debate about whether people in rural areas or urban areas suffer most. T...
Oliver Heald | 539 c723 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman amplify his comments about universal credit, because I understood that with ...
Graham Stuart | 539 c722 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way again, as I have to leave the Chamber in a moment...
Clive Betts | 539 c723 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure the Minister is far better able than I am to explain, because it was his consultation and ...
Helen Jones | 539 c727 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, I agree, and we will consider those people as we proceed with discussions this evening. That is...
Helen Jones | 539 c728 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend has got it exactly right. In fact, throughout the passage of the Bill, we have ...
John Healey | 539 c727-8 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is making the clear and strong case that the new scheme will increase the financial r...
Helen Jones | 539 c728 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend is again absolutely right. The Government are a little schizophrenic on this, s...
John Healey | 539 c728 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is making the case very cogently that council treasurers will take a prudent view; do...
Helen Jones | 539 c728 (Link to this contribution)
That is a very fair point. The problem is that instability is being built into the system. My hon. F...
Mike Hancock | 539 c728 (Link to this contribution)
I agree entirely with the point made by the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey)...
Lord Beamish | 539 c725 (Link to this contribution)
The problem for authorities such as mine in County Durham, where a large number of people receive co...
Robert Syms | 539 c725-6 (Link to this contribution)
I am certain that the measure will have a different effect on different authorities. We need a littl...
Helen Jones | 539 c726-7 (Link to this contribution)
It is a great pleasure to be under your chairmanship, Mr Crausby. We have heard hon. Gentlemen on bo...
Lord Beamish | 539 c727 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that that includes the 1.9 million people in receipt of council tax benefi...
Lord Beamish | 539 c757 (Link to this contribution)
As was pointed out earlier, different councils may operate myriad different schemes. Would that not ...
Lord Beamish | 539 c742 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
David Ward | 539 c742-3 (Link to this contribution)
No.
However, that is not really the point. It does not really matter whether those two figures equa...
Helen Jones | 539 c728-9 (Link to this contribution)
It is no good the Parliamentary Private Secretary chuntering away—it will have no effect. I spent ye...
Clive Betts | 539 c719-20 (Link to this contribution)
I support the amendments of my right hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Mr Raynsford...
Ian Mearns | 539 c766 (Link to this contribution)
In the light of the Minister's reflection that the Secretary of State is highly unlikely to use his ...
Helen Jones | 539 c753-4 (Link to this contribution)
This group of amendments deals with the impact of the proposed changes in council tax benefit on som...
Nick Raynsford | 539 c747-8 (Link to this contribution)
We have just heard an absolutely lamentable performance from a Minister who is trying to wash his ha...
Lord Stunell | 539 c745 (Link to this contribution)
It is a power to intervene but the Secretary of State does not propose to intervene on schemes. [Hon...
Nick Raynsford | 539 c719 (Link to this contribution)
If the hon. Gentleman looks carefully at the wording of the amendment, he will see that it allows lo...
Robert Syms | 539 c725 (Link to this contribution)
I do not support amendment 79, but think it a useful vehicle for debate on an important subject. In ...
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