Parliamentary search - Health and Social Care Bill

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

732 c946-1027, 1040-8

Session

2010-12

Department

Department of Health

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Health and Social Care Bill. In two volumes. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 92-EN also published.
Thursday, 8 September 2011
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Clement-Jones | 732 c1011-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, has given us a very wide range of views on what integra...

Lord Walton of Detchant | 732 c998 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I believe it would be helpful to the Committee, even if one leaves aside the crucial role ...

Show all contributions (124)

Lord Warner | 732 c964 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I found the arguments used by the noble Earl on this particular amendment in this debate u...

Baroness Hollins | 732 c1015-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 203A in my name and those of my noble friend Lady Finlay and the...

Baroness Murphy | 732 c1021 (Link to this contribution) I am very well aware of the wonderfully heartening Commonwealth of Massachusetts report, but the poi...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 732 c949-51 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is one of the most important groups of amendments that we are going to discuss, becau...

Lord Ribeiro | 732 c1012-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, for her comments about integration, because I a...

Baroness Thornton | 732 c1009-11 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wonder if I might speak to both of the amendments that are down in the name of my noble ...

Lord Warner | 732 c1005-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise as I seem to have a series of amendments to this part of the Bill with my name...

Lord Patel | 732 c1007-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my name is added to Amendment 103 and other amendments in the group. Amendment 197E, which...

Lord Warner | 732 c1004-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been a very interesting debate. It was never my intention to assume that the way ...

Lord Warner | 732 c1005 (Link to this contribution) 103: Clause 20, page 17, line 14, at end insert— ““( ) In discharging this duty, the Board must annu...

Baroness Young of Old Scone | 732 c1004 (Link to this contribution) Can I just press him on that point? We have a situation at the moment that I think is not in patient...

Earl Howe | 732 c1004 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness, with her passion for this important area of care, makes an extremely important p...

Earl Howe | 732 c1004 (Link to this contribution) I could not agree more with the noble Lord. We want to get closer to the question of what represents...

Earl Howe | 732 c1002-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would be delighted to have that conversation. I did not in the least mean to suggest tha...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 732 c1003-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful for the Minister’s response on clinical commissioning groups, but I come bac...

Earl Howe | 732 c1002 (Link to this contribution) Practices will be accountable for the money that they receive to commission services, as will CCGs. ...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 732 c1002 (Link to this contribution) This is not about GPs’ private incomes and tax returns. This is about the finances of the business, ...

Earl Howe | 732 c1002 (Link to this contribution) I understand the noble Baroness’s point. Clearly, we want to see maximum accountability for public m...

Lord Warner | 732 c1002 (Link to this contribution) I do not particularly want to intervene about GPs. I can understand to some extent what the noble Ea...

Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 732 c998-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am not sure whether my intervention will complicate the debate further but I very much s...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 732 c999-1000 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for moving the amendment. I should like to start with the...

Earl Howe | 732 c1000-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been a useful debate. I should probably say straight away to the noble Lord, Lord...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 732 c1001 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister sits down, will he say why, if he feels that other accounts of public money shou...

Baroness Murphy | 732 c997-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I recognise the problem that has been described so ably by the noble Lord, Lord Warner, bu...

Lord Warner | 732 c998 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should like to respond briefly to the noble Baroness. There is nothing in the amendment ...

Lord Warner | 732 c993 (Link to this contribution) 102: Clause 20, page 17, line 14, at end insert— ““(2) In discharging its duty under this section th...

Lord Warner | 732 c994-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I regard this amendment as one of the most important building blocks in the Bill, although...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 732 c990 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the debate on the first group was instructive on the relationship between Parliament, the ...

Lord Warner | 732 c996 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am seeking to set up something that would function in the early years of the national Co...

Lord Owen | 732 c996-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I had not expected to intervene in this debate, but some of the things that I want to say ...

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 732 c995-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it would be very helpful if the Minister could say something about the proposals with rega...

Baroness Cumberlege | 732 c996 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should like to probe the amendment a little further because I think that it has a lot of...

Lord Patel | 732 c987 (Link to this contribution) I did not have in mind the scientific meaning of ““research””. This is research of what is going on ...

Baroness Northover | 732 c987-9 (Link to this contribution) I take on board what the noble Lord says, and indeed he is absolutely right. There are various ways ...

Lord Patel | 732 c989 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was hoping that at the end the noble Baroness would be able to say more strongly how the...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 732 c990 (Link to this contribution) 100A: Clause 20, page 16, line 30, at end insert— ““( ) If, within 60 parliamentary days of the mand...

Lord Warner | 732 c985 (Link to this contribution) That was not my question. The noble Baroness is arguing that HealthWatch would actually benefit from...

Baroness Northover | 732 c985 (Link to this contribution) At the moment the CQC is relatively well known because its reports are in the press fairly frequentl...

Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 732 c985 (Link to this contribution) I too have listened to this extremely important debate with a great deal of interest. I am slightly ...

Baroness Northover | 732 c985-6 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that I am not putting this clearly. One of the major points about this is for HealthWatch...

Baroness Emerton | 732 c986 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have referred to ““patients”” all the time, and I understood that HealthWatch was going...

Baroness Northover | 732 c986-7 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness is quite right that this is patients and public. One of our concerns about some o...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 732 c982 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness stood against me.

Baroness Northover | 732 c982 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I sympathise with the noble Lord, Lord Patel. He is forgiven for being subject to the beat...

Baroness Jolly | 732 c981-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, they say that too many cooks spoil the broth, but I think this is an occasion where that p...

Lord Patel | 732 c981 (Link to this contribution) In response to the amount of funding, as I understand it—I am sure the noble Baroness, Lady Northove...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 732 c981 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to intervene again on the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege. It is probably because we know...

Baroness Northover | 732 c984 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Warner, is very concerned that HealthWatch itself is a name that is going to be...

Lord Warner | 732 c984 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister give the House any information that the department has on the name recognition of t...

Baroness Northover | 732 c983-4 (Link to this contribution) Then there were the patient forums of 2004. The noble Lord, Lord Warner, said that these were, "““th...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 732 c983 (Link to this contribution) It went down before it went up.

Baroness Northover | 732 c982-3 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord points out, I stood against him as a paper candidate—a non-serious candidate. When...

Lord Warner | 732 c975-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have added my name to Amendment 99 and to a number of other amendments tabled by the nob...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 732 c972-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise to my noble friend Lord Patel if he in any sense felt beaten up by me. I absol...

Baroness Cumberlege | 732 c977 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have listened to the debate, and some powerful arguments have been put forward for an in...

Baroness Masham of Ilton | 732 c976-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I spoke on this subject at Second Reading, and I want to go back in history for a few minu...

Baroness Cumberlege | 732 c981 (Link to this contribution) I will think about that. Having dealt with the Treasury in the past, I know how difficult it is to g...

Baroness Masham of Ilton | 732 c981 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I want to ask the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, about her safeguarding amendments, whic...

Baroness Cumberlege | 732 c977-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Harris, for his history lesson. Perhaps I shoul...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 732 c977 (Link to this contribution) I would not disagree with the point about the resources, but the initiative to set up the associatio...

Lord Walton of Detchant | 732 c981 (Link to this contribution) I have a short but, I believe, relevant question for the Minister. As he is aware, a medical charity...

Lord Whitty | 732 c979-80 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, tabled amendments in this group. They are aimed at providing HealthWatch with the ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 732 c963 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Earl, but there are some extra points here. What we have seen f...

Earl Howe | 732 c962-3 (Link to this contribution) I am surprised that the noble Lord, Lord Owen, thinks that the health service should be run in that ...

Lord Owen | 732 c962 (Link to this contribution) The procedure in another place is deliberately very limited in terms of getting to a legislative cha...

Lord Warner | 732 c964 (Link to this contribution) 98: Clause 20, page 16, line 26, at end insert ““and be prepared to inform Parliament of any major r...

Lord Warner | 732 c964 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have had a very interesting debate on Amendment 96. I cannot say that I have been convi...

Earl Howe | 732 c963-4 (Link to this contribution) Because it would get Parliament into the territory of micromanaging the health service, if it so cho...

Baroness Wheeler | 732 c970-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I start by saying that I was not one of the ones who beat up the noble Lord, Lord Patel, o...

Lord Patel | 732 c967-70 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise to the Minister and to the noble Baroness, Lady Northover. Yesterday afternoon...

Lord Patel | 732 c967 (Link to this contribution) 99: Clause 20, page 16, leave out lines 27 and 28 and insert— ““(b) Healthwatch England, and””

Earl Howe | 732 c958-9 (Link to this contribution) It could do. However, that is to be determined. I would welcome the views of the noble Lord on that,...

Lord Davies of Stamford | 732 c958 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Minister for giving way. Could, or would, the mandate include any way to p...

Earl Howe | 732 c959 (Link to this contribution) Of course, Parliament is the sovereign body and can do whatever it chooses. Nothing will prevent it ...

Lord Owen | 732 c959 (Link to this contribution) It sounds very reasonable, but effectively the pre-consultation period will involve the board, Healt...

Earl Howe | 732 c960 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was just about to comment on the recommendation of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory R...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 732 c959-60 (Link to this contribution) I take up the point that any debate in Parliament should be after consultation has taken place so th...

Earl Howe | 732 c961 (Link to this contribution) As I said, there will be full public consultation on the mandate. It would of course be possible for...

Lord Warner | 732 c960 (Link to this contribution) I have been cogitating what the Minister has been saying, in his normal, plausible way, about the co...

Earl Howe | 732 c962 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness knows that I have undertaken to engage in discussions outside this Chamber about ...

Baroness Jay of Paddington | 732 c961 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the Minister can help me with a point he made in response to the noble Lord, Lord O...

Baroness Cumberlege | 732 c1044 (Link to this contribution) Those words are so warm to my heart, I cannot tell the noble Lord how much. One of the things that r...

Earl Howe | 732 c1044 (Link to this contribution) It is the Independent Reconfiguration Panel.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 732 c1043-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we are indebted to my noble friend for raising what I think is one of the most difficult i...

Lord Warner | 732 c1044 (Link to this contribution) I never thought that I would be outflanked on the Stalinist wing of the Labour Party by any Member o...

Earl Howe | 732 c1045-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this group of amendments usefully focuses us on reconfiguration and the sustainability of ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 732 c1046 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Earl for giving way. I understand that, but is not the problem ...

Baroness Cumberlege | 732 c1044 (Link to this contribution) I am indebted to my noble friend for that. Does the Independent Reconfiguration Panel play a part in...

Lord Warner | 732 c1044-5 (Link to this contribution) Something equivalent to the Independent Reconfiguration Panel was used earlier in the system. It was...

Lord Warner | 732 c1040-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is probably not the best time of night to be concentrating on this set of amendments,...

Earl Howe | 732 c1046-7 (Link to this contribution) I understand the noble Lord’s point; it is one that we have thought carefully about, as he might ima...

Lord Warner | 732 c1048 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been a useful piece of—if I may put it this way—foreplay on this subject before w...

Lord Beecham | 732 c1047 (Link to this contribution) What does the Minister mean by local consultation and local considerations? One can envisage a situa...

Earl Howe | 732 c1047-8 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is absolutely right. In that kind of situation the process would inevitably become mo...

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 732 c1020-1 (Link to this contribution) I listened very carefully to what the noble Baroness, Lady Murphy, said, and I broadly agree with it...

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 732 c1018-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have several amendments in this group. Amendment 203A has been spoken to fully by noble ...

Baroness Murphy | 732 c1019-20 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, much has been said on this group of amendments and I will not delay the Committee too much...

Baroness Tyler of Enfield | 732 c1016-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 135CA in my name. We have already had a very interesting debate ...

Lord Turnberg | 732 c1013-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 103, 104A, 106, 135A, and several of the others in this group. ...

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 732 c1021-2 (Link to this contribution) I think the answer to that had probably better come from the department rather than from me, but I a...

Baroness Thornton | 732 c1021 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness, Lady Williams, is right. It is a great report, and I have read it. Would she car...

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 732 c1021 (Link to this contribution) I would not disagree with the noble Baroness on that issue. I agree with her, but I am trying to mak...

Baroness Thornton | 732 c1026 (Link to this contribution) I am thinking about Monitor, what it is doing and its role as an economic regulator. Why is it the b...

Earl Howe | 732 c1026 (Link to this contribution) It needs to be a body that is separate from the NHS Commissioning Board. Determining what represents...

Baroness Thornton | 732 c1026 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps when the Minister writes to me, he could explain why it is better that economists and regula...

Earl Howe | 732 c1026-7 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I will. To address the point that I began just now, the board’s duty to promote integration spe...

Lord Warner | 732 c1022 (Link to this contribution) I would not normally have interrupted the noble Baroness, but this canard that somehow integration i...

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 732 c1022 (Link to this contribution) I have actually gone in to the story of Kaiser Permanente very carefully. It is not surprising that ...

Baroness Wheeler | 732 c1022-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will speak briefly to my Amendment 135B. Since the Future Forum report, there is a renew...

Earl Howe | 732 c1023-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the subject of the tariff may, to an outsider, seem rather dry but I will begin by saying ...

Lord Warner | 732 c1040 (Link to this contribution) 104: Clause 20, page 17, line 14, at end insert— ““( ) In discharging its duty under this section th...

Lord Warner | 732 c1027 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been a very helpful debate. I do not wish to keep noble Lords from their supper. ...

Lord Warner | 732 c946 (Link to this contribution) 96: Clause 20, page 15, line 37, leave out first ““the”” and insert ““a maximum of five obligatory a...

Lord Warner | 732 c947-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have come to Clause 20, which covers the Secretary of State’s mandate to the National C...

Baroness Murphy | 732 c948-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have added my name to the amendments, many of which are from the noble Lord, Lord Patel,...

Lord Patel | 732 c951-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I added my name to the amendments tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Warner. They were prompte...

Lord Owen | 732 c952-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment spoken to very ably by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt. The case is utte...

Lord Harris of Haringey | 732 c954-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I confess that I am something of a cynic about some of the proposals in the Bill. I am a g...

Baroness Williams of Crosby | 732 c955-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will comment further on Amendment 98. One of the great qualities of the amendment is tha...

Earl Howe | 732 c956-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope that I can demonstrate to the Committee that the portrayal of what the Government i...

Lord Warner | 732 c957 (Link to this contribution) I would like to pursue the last point the Minister made. Is he saying that, after a lot of consultat...

Earl Howe | 732 c957 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is taking us into a hypothetical realm. I understand why he is asking those questions...

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