Parliamentary search - Welfare Reform Bill

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

732 c315-74GC

Session

2010-12

Department

Department for Work and Pensions

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee

Welfare Reform Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 75-EN also published.
Thursday, 16 June 2011
Bills
House of Lords

Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. Seventeenth report on: Armed Forces Bill; Welfare Reform Bill; Scotland Bill; Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill - Government response. (Lords Minutes).
Wednesday, 13 July 2011
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 732 c347GC (Link to this contribution) I understand the dilemma that the Minister faces and that it is not a dilemma of his making, so I ha...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c347GC (Link to this contribution) Will discretionary housing payments be included as benefits for these purposes?

Show all contributions (116)

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c325-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, these are useful probing amendments to understand fully what is happening or proposed in r...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 732 c335GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the noble Lord, Lord Best, in his amendment. There are some very difficult incon...

Lord Freud | 732 c348GC (Link to this contribution) Such payments could, however, be taken into account when determining whether the cap itself should a...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 732 c349GC (Link to this contribution) While the noble Lord is conferring, can he perhaps explain to the Committee what behavioural effects...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 732 c352GC (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister ensure that his colleagues in the DCLG do not give guidance to local authorities t...

Baroness Sherlock | 732 c369-70GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hesitate to follow that speech from the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope, because I...

Lord Freud | 732 c347GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness is, as always, way ahead of the curve. As I hope I explained, there are several t...

Lord Freud | 732 c347GC (Link to this contribution) Regrettably, yes, it may or it may not. That will depend on how we reach our design by taking in the...

Lord Freud | 732 c347GC (Link to this contribution) They will not be included. Moving on, with regard to the couple penalty, we should not assume any au...

Lord Freud | 732 c344-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, these amendments seek to increase the amount of welfare benefits that households which are...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c346GC (Link to this contribution) Could the noble Lord clarify whether he is saying that it will not be included in the total of benef...

Lord Freud | 732 c346GC (Link to this contribution) It is the former. It may be helpful if I explain now that we feel that the best way to support these...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 732 c346-7GC (Link to this contribution) If the Minister is staying on this point then I will sit down, but before he goes on to another poin...

Lord Freud | 732 c326-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Patel, for tabling these amendments and to the noble...

Lord Freud | 732 c322GC (Link to this contribution) 89: Schedule 9, page 133, line 10, leave out from beginning to end of line 28 on page 134

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 732 c322GC (Link to this contribution) If we go on like this, we will finish today. Amendment 87 withdrawn. Amendment 88 not moved. Clau...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c323GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for his explanation of these amendments, which I think I understand a...

Lord Freud | 732 c322-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the amendments in this group serve two purposes: to remove a number of consequential amend...

Lord Freud | 732 c324GC (Link to this contribution) 90: Schedule 9, page 137, line 35, leave out from beginning to end of line 9 on page 140 91: Sched...

Lord Freud | 732 c323-4GC (Link to this contribution) When you look at these detailed measures, which is something that I do not encourage anyone to do wh...

Baroness Sherlock | 732 c324-5GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I move this amendment on behalf of the noble Lord, Lord Patel, who has been unavoidably de...

Baroness Sherlock | 732 c324GC (Link to this contribution) 95A: Clause 91, page 61, line 28, at end insert ““including those aged 16 to 24””

Bishop of Ripon and Leeds | 732 c330-1GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as we come to the consideration of the cap on welfare benefits, the amendments in my name ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c328GC (Link to this contribution) Could the Minister clarify a point? I apologise if I have missed this. In the case of someone who at...

Baroness Sherlock | 732 c329GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for giving such a comprehensive account of the Government’s approach ...

Lord Freud | 732 c329GC (Link to this contribution) Clearly, if they go through their birthday when PIP is in position, we will have the arrangements th...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c328GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that. The Minister will see that the issue that that highlights is the one that wa...

Lord Freud | 732 c328GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have not done a detailed migration strategy. When people are effectively on adult DLA, ...

Bishop of Ripon and Leeds | 732 c330GC (Link to this contribution) 99ZA: Clause 93, page 62, line 16, after ““couple”” insert ““or family with children””

Lord German | 732 c329GC (Link to this contribution) This group of amendments was designed to test the arrangements that we have in Parliament for review...

Lord German | 732 c329GC (Link to this contribution) 98ZA: Clause 91, page 61, line 33, leave out ““the first””

Lord Freud | 732 c329GC (Link to this contribution) 97: Clause 91, page 61, line 32, leave out ““either or both”” and insert ““any”” 98: Clause 91, pa...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c333GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that the noble Lord, Lord Best, wishes to speak.

Baroness Tyler of Enfield | 732 c331-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should like to explain why I decided to add my name to the excellent amendments that hav...

Lord Skelmersdale | 732 c340GC (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend the Minister responds to the questions asked by noble Lords, it seems to me t...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c339GC (Link to this contribution) Indeed, I very much agree with that. In fact, one of my other questions to the Minister is to ask wh...

Lord Skelmersdale | 732 c340GC (Link to this contribution) Can I just finish? I accept that this will involve lifestyle changes. It is inevitable, is it not? N...

Lord Best | 732 c333-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in speaking to Amendment 99AC in this group, I am very grateful to Shelter, Homeless Link ...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 732 c339GC (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord not agree that, with the new affordable rents—which are going to be 80 per cent ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c335-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we are indebted to the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Ripon and Leeds for leading th...

Lord Skelmersdale | 732 c340GC (Link to this contribution) If there is a family where the sole income comes from either the man or the woman, then the situatio...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 732 c340GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may add to my noble friend’s comments. Would the noble Lord care to compare apples with ap...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c340GC (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Lord approve of a lifestyle change that forced someone out of a council house, whate...

Lord German | 732 c341-4GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that I have followed your Lordships’ normal pathway by allowing those who have put their name...

Lord German | 732 c341GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords—

Lord Skelmersdale | 732 c341GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as I understand it, everyone with children gets child benefit, so you can cut that out qui...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 732 c341GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may intervene. I can tell the Committee off the cuff that all of them with children will b...

Lord Skelmersdale | 732 c340GC (Link to this contribution) In that case, it would be useful for my noble friend Lord Freud to tell us how many families with an...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 732 c340GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is incorrect. He is failing to recognise that a man in work with a family at that inc...

Lord Wigley | 732 c316GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise to speak very briefly in support of these amendments so ably moved by the noble Lor...

Lord Skelmersdale | 732 c316-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am not sure whether I ought to declare an interest, but I will do so nevertheless. My da...

Lord Touhig | 732 c315GC (Link to this contribution) 86F: Clause 85, page 60, line 11, leave out subsection (3) and insert— ““(3) Regulations shall presc...

Lord Touhig | 732 c315-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendments 86F and 86G in my name, that of my noble friend Lady Healy of Primrose Hill and...

Lord Freud | 732 c318-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we think it is right that an individual’s benefit entitlement is based on the degree to wh...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c317-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have a degree of sympathy with the amendment moved by my noble friend Lord Touhig and s...

Lord McAvoy | 732 c317GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like to follow the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, that medical s...

Countess of Mar | 732 c317GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, in his amendment. I respect the view of the noble L...

Lord Freud | 732 c320GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it would be premature for me to go into much more detail here. Clearly, we are aiming to b...

Lord Touhig | 732 c320GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions to this very short but useful and importan...

Lord Rix | 732 c321GC (Link to this contribution) 87: Clause 86, page 60, line 17, at end insert ““biennially for the first six years after those sect...

Lord Rix | 732 c321GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the purpose of this amendment and Amendment 88 would be to introduce a biennial independen...

Lord Wigley | 732 c319GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister said a moment ago that he was looking for the maximum degree of flexibility and not to ...

Lord Freud | 732 c319GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, my Lords. That is what I said and it has not changed. Noble Lords might be reassured by the fac...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c319GC (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister clarify one point? He said that some awards might be long term and some short term....

Lord Wigley | 732 c322GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as my fire has been taken away from me by the Minister, perhaps I may at least be allowed ...

Lord Freud | 732 c321-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may be permitted to make an early intervention here in order to offer to take th...

Lord Rix | 732 c322GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will manage to cut things short by saying that I am very grateful to the Minister. I tru...

Lord Freud | 732 c351GC (Link to this contribution) I should like to engage in a detailed debate on this, but all I can tell noble Lords at this stage i...

Lord Freud | 732 c351GC (Link to this contribution) Regrettably, I am not in a position to be drawn. All I can say is that we are looking at how we can ...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 732 c351GC (Link to this contribution) But it is a problem of the Government’s own creation. This is the difficulty—there is no evidence th...

Lord Freud | 732 c351GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have made it clear how we ease the transition for families, and that is one of the thing...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 732 c351GC (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister at least help the Committee by indicating the shape—I shall not try to hold him to ...

Lord Freud | 732 c350GC (Link to this contribution) The best I can say is that according to the current published impact assessment roughly 70 per cent ...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 732 c350GC (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that I have an answer that I fully understand. The noble Lord, Lord Best, raised the q...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c350GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to press the Minister but, for us, the percentage of people affected by the cap who might...

Lord Freud | 732 c350GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am going to revert to principle here. The principle of our policy sets out that the equi...

Baroness Sherlock | 732 c349-50GC (Link to this contribution) Before we leave this point, my noble friend Lady Lister just asked what is for me the crucial questi...

Lord Freud | 732 c352GC (Link to this contribution) That is a matter that we will look at very closely. We want to encourage work and one of the main as...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c352GC (Link to this contribution) In which case, I have one final question. In relation to homelessness, I asked whether we might have...

Lord Freud | 732 c352GC (Link to this contribution) I very elegantly have a wonderful piece of paper to hand. On the median, it works for total income—a...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 732 c352GC (Link to this contribution) If the Minister could circulate those figures to all Members of the Committee, it would be very usef...

Lord Freud | 732 c352GC (Link to this contribution) I am sure that noble Lords probably have them at their fingertips anyway. They are meant to be acces...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c352GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to come back to this but there are still some unanswered questions. I do not think the no...

Lord Northbourne | 732 c351GC (Link to this contribution) I support that view.

Bishop of Ripon and Leeds | 732 c351GC (Link to this contribution) I have two points. First, do I understand that now, in contrast to the research done some months ago...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c352GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, is that right? It might be right if you are looking at earnings, but if you are looking at...

Lord Freud | 732 c351-2GC (Link to this contribution) As to the first question asked by the right reverend Prelate on where all the people in social housi...

Baroness Sherlock | 732 c348GC (Link to this contribution) Could I just press the Minister for a moment on that? Have the Government looked into what other cos...

Lord Freud | 732 c348-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the principle, as noble Lords will know, is that the grants to particular local authoritie...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c349GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister as ever for his detailed response but there are still a few questions...

Lord Freud | 732 c349GC (Link to this contribution) I think that we have a scattering of figures in this area. It is a minority, which I think is around...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c349GC (Link to this contribution) That would certainly be satisfactory but even if that 10 per cent estimate is roughly right, it mean...

Lord Freud | 732 c349GC (Link to this contribution) On the figures, one reason why I am slightly betwixt and between is that we are looking at that impa...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 732 c348GC (Link to this contribution) I understand that; I have read the clause. I was trying to understand what might be included in the ...

Lord Freud | 732 c348GC (Link to this contribution) Putative is a good word. The figures to which he was referring came from internal modelling from the...

Lord De Mauley | 732 c374GC (Link to this contribution) On that basis, perhaps I may suggest that the Committee be adjourned until Wednesday at 3.45 pm.

Bishop of Ripon and Leeds | 732 c354-5GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the amendment seeks to remove child benefit from the calculation of benefit income when de...

Bishop of Ripon and Leeds | 732 c353GC (Link to this contribution) 99ZB: Clause 93, page 62, line 19, after ““benefits,”” insert ““with the exclusion of child benefit”...

Lord De Mauley | 732 c353GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, may I suggest that this would be an appropriate moment to take a 10-minute break? Sitting...

Bishop of Ripon and Leeds | 732 c353GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may just thank everyone for all the contributions that have been made. I also thank the Mi...

Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 732 c355-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise to speak in support of Amendment 99AD and to oppose the questions that Clauses 93 a...

Lord Freud | 732 c352GC (Link to this contribution) I will be happy to do that.

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 732 c353GC (Link to this contribution) When may we know the answer to that point? Conventionally, under homelessness legislation, anyone wh...

Lord Freud | 732 c353GC (Link to this contribution) It is for local authorities to make decisions on individual homelessness applications, as they do no...

Lord Freud | 732 c353GC (Link to this contribution) As I said, we are working very closely with the DCLG on the implementation of the benefit cap. We wi...

Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 732 c368-9GC (Link to this contribution) It may be putative, for all I know, but the conjunction of subsections (1) and (8) worries me greatl...

Lord De Mauley | 732 c374GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise for intervening at this stage but it appears that this debate is going to take...

Baroness Drake | 732 c370-4GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 99AAA, to which I have put my name, and to Amendment 99C, parti...

Baroness Donaghy | 732 c359-60GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 99ZC is by way of an interval in the big picture, but I hope that noble Lords wi...

Baroness Hollins | 732 c360-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 99A calls for a new exemption from the benefit cap for households in which a res...

Lord Best | 732 c362-6GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am speaking to Amendments 99AA, 99AB and 99D. We now return to housing matters. I have a...

Baroness Tyler of Enfield | 732 c366-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I add my support to the two amendments in this group to which I have added my name. I shal...

Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 732 c367-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that Clauses 93 and 94, and I speak only for myself, are incapable of satisfactory...

Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 732 c368GC (Link to this contribution) It is putative.

Subjects

Disability

Disability living allowance

Child benefit

Childcare

Housing benefit

Housing

Families

Education

Income

Industrial injuries