Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill. Lords second reading debate agreed to on question. Bill committed to a Committee of the Whole House.
Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill
Debate on bills on Wednesday, 5 October 2011,
in the House of Lords,
led by Lord Henley.
The answering
member was Lord Hunt of Kings Heath.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
730 c1133-203
Session
2010-12
Legislative stage
Second reading
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 91-EN also published. (Lords Minutes).
Tuesday, 6 September 2011
Bills
House of Lords
Tuesday, 6 September 2011
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 730 c1139-40 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the noble Lord is a very good debater, particularly when he defending a really impossible ...
Baroness Hamwee | 730 c1140-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister for his introduction and welcome him to his position. If I were...
Show all contributions (79)
Lord Bew | 730 c1144-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I, too, welcome the noble Lord, Lord Henley, to his position. However, I speak in this Sec...
Bishop of Oxford | 730 c1145-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the Church of England is sometimes accused of being unclear or indecisive in its public pr...
Lord Howard of Lympne | 730 c1147-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I congratulate the Minister on his promotion. As I am sure he has already found out, the H...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 730 c1149 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I cannot resist. The point that I am making is that, as a result of the clear divisions, w...
Lord Goodhart | 730 c1139 (Link to this contribution)
Does the noble Lord accept that this deals with a particular problem, which is what is to be done du...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 730 c1139 (Link to this contribution)
Why, then, my Lords, do the Government need a draft emergency Bill? It is because they consider that...
Lord Goodhart | 730 c1139 (Link to this contribution)
This is something that is supposed to arise during the period when Parliament is dissolved. That is ...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 730 c1139 (Link to this contribution)
Then why on earth not put it into the Bill and allow the House to scrutinise and debate it thoroughl...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 730 c1153 (Link to this contribution)
I am of course delighted to try to defend the Bill on behalf of the Minister, although I suspect tha...
Lord Howard of Lympne | 730 c1153 (Link to this contribution)
Is not the point that there is an enormous gap between preventing someone entering a particular area...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 730 c1150-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of the Metropolitan Police Authority, with particular re...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 730 c1153 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way, but I must ask him the same question as I asked the ...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 730 c1153 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, as ever I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Howard, for his helpful intervention. My poi...
Lord Howard of Lympne | 730 c1149 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord is, of course, perfectly entitled to criticise particular provisions in the Bill. Wha...
Lord Howard of Lympne | 730 c1150 (Link to this contribution)
I hope that my noble friend in that intervention has not exhausted the number of examples of that ki...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 730 c1150 (Link to this contribution)
In answering the question asked by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, perhaps my noble friend w...
Lord Howard of Lympne | 730 c1149 (Link to this contribution)
Of course it is technically not part of the United States, and that is why it can exist as it does, ...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 730 c1149 (Link to this contribution)
Is the noble Lord aware of any other country in the world which has control orders or anything like ...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 730 c1159 (Link to this contribution)
Briefly, my noble friend raises a good point that he does not have access to the information on whic...
Lord Dubs | 730 c1159 (Link to this contribution)
Of course, all Home Secretaries had access to this information which we do not have, so I cannot nam...
Lord Howard of Lympne | 730 c1159 (Link to this contribution)
Can the noble Lord name a country with an adversarial system of evidence which is subject to the jur...
Lord Dubs | 730 c1159-61 (Link to this contribution)
I am obviously well outside my comfort zone on this. I am not sure whether the Republic of Ireland m...
Baroness Stern | 730 c1156-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I welcome very much the way in which the Minister presented this Bill to the House and I l...
Lord Goodhart | 730 c1154-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, as we all know, the Bill replaces the Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005. It substitutes TPI...
Lord Dubs | 730 c1158-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I welcome the noble Lord, Lord Henley, as the Minister and pay tribute to the noble Barone...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 730 c1153-4 (Link to this contribution)
As I understand it, people who are subject to control orders are in many instances already tagged. T...
Baroness Hamwee | 730 c1153 (Link to this contribution)
Would the noble Lord like to say anything about the development of technology? He may be overlooking...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 730 c1165 (Link to this contribution)
Would the noble Lord give us one piece of evidence to substantiate that?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 730 c1165 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord talked about broader public support, but what evidence does he have of major public c...
Lord Macdonald of River Glaven | 730 c1165 (Link to this contribution)
If the noble Lord does not mind my saying so, that is a somewhat complacent view. There is wide publ...
Lord Macdonald of River Glaven | 730 c1165 (Link to this contribution)
Of course one recognises that if an investigation, using all the powers available to the investigati...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 730 c1165 (Link to this contribution)
But my noble friend Lord Howard did not suggest that. Does not my noble friend Lord Macdonald, from ...
Lord Macdonald of River Glaven | 730 c1164-5 (Link to this contribution)
If my noble friend does not mind my saying so, I am not sure that the example that he posits is one ...
Lord Howard of Lympne | 730 c1164 (Link to this contribution)
What would happen under the regime that my noble friend is suggesting if the police and prosecuting ...
Lord Macdonald of River Glaven | 730 c1163-4 (Link to this contribution)
I entirely accept what the noble Lord says, and I am sure he is right about that. Of course, if the ...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 730 c1163 (Link to this contribution)
The main reason people could abscond during control orders was not as a result of what the Home Secr...
Lord Macdonald of River Glaven | 730 c1162 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, while like other noble Lords I welcome the noble Lord, Lord Henley, to his new role and se...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 730 c1137-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, first, I thank the Minister for his careful explanation of the Bill. I would very much lik...
Lord Henley | 730 c1133-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, protecting the public from terrorism will always be the top priority of the Government and...
Lord Henley | 730 c1133 (Link to this contribution)
Moved By
That the Bill be read a second time.
Lord Pannick | 730 c1167-8 (Link to this contribution)
I am very grateful. If the noble Lord accepts—I hope he does—that the public view on these issues is...
Lord Macdonald of River Glaven | 730 c1166 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord has his experience and I am grateful to him for sharing it with us. I find it very he...
Lord Pannick | 730 c1166-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we are debating the Bill at a particularly depressing time for civil liberties in this cou...
Lord Macdonald of River Glaven | 730 c1166 (Link to this contribution)
I respect the noble Lord’s experience. I am sure from my own experience, conversations and discussio...
Lord Gilbert | 730 c1166 (Link to this contribution)
We all speak from our own experience; the noble Lord moves in his circles and I moved in mine. I hav...
Lord Macdonald of River Glaven | 730 c1165 (Link to this contribution)
The level of public debate and discussion is pretty clear evidence. The review itself contains evide...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 730 c1166 (Link to this contribution)
May I help the noble Lord? I was a Member of Parliament for 23 years. I held a surgery at least once...
Lord Pannick | 730 c1168-9 (Link to this contribution)
The factual answer to the noble Lord’s question is no. Of course I have not asked the Lord Chief Jus...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 730 c1168 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, in relation to the point the noble Lord has just made, has he ascertained the view of the ...
Lord Morgan | 730 c1191-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, like all other speakers I congratulate the Minister on his new responsibility. I hope that...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 730 c1193-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, as the last Back-Bench speaker, I am in the happy position of being able to rely on excell...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 730 c1187-8 (Link to this contribution)
That is the point that the noble Lord has already made on many occasions during the course of the de...
Lord James of Blackheath | 730 c1188-91 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I start with the proposition that anybody who gets away with improper or criminal action i...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 730 c1187 (Link to this contribution)
I would have thought that the answer to that question is obvious: under a surveillance regime, a per...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 730 c1187 (Link to this contribution)
I do not support the Bill at all. I think that it is a complete nonsense. What is emerging is an ina...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 730 c1199 (Link to this contribution)
Before my noble friend sits down, will he allow me to declare my interests as registered? I meant to...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 730 c1195-7 (Link to this contribution)
Speaking in the gap, I have very few minutes, but I want to try to cover the context, the principle ...
Lord Henley | 730 c1202-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I can give an assurance to the House, to the noble Lord and to anyone else who reads our d...
Lord Henley | 730 c1199-201 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I offer my thanks to all noble Lords who have welcomed me to this post and, more important...
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 730 c1202 (Link to this contribution)
That is extremely helpful but, on that basis, does the Minister agree that it would be sensible for ...
Lord Henley | 730 c1202 (Link to this contribution)
I will make no guarantee at this stage. I noted that my noble friend Lord Carlile suggested a delay ...
Lord Desai | 730 c1202 (Link to this contribution)
I was in India when the London riots took place. The one fear that everybody expressed was, ““What w...
Lord Faulks | 730 c1169-72 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this Government, like the previous Government, have a duty to respond to the threat of ter...
Lord Desai | 730 c1172-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, as the previous two speakers have mentioned the cat, I, too, shall start with that. The ca...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 730 c1173-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it is always interesting to follow the noble Lord, Lord Desai, in debate. He has not disap...
Lord Hennessy of Nympsfield | 730 c1177-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, when an open society such as ours finds itself confronted by a vivid, immediate and largel...
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon | 730 c1179-81 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, first, I join others in welcoming my noble friend the Minister to his new responsibilities...
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill | 730 c1184-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I, too, welcome the noble Lord, Lord Henley, to his post. Someone who makes marmalade must...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 730 c1185-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, some noble Lords will remember, as I certainly do, when control orders were first introduc...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 730 c1186 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, with great respect to the noble and learned Lord, I really do not think he should be allow...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 730 c1186 (Link to this contribution)
I am very glad to hear what the noble Lord has said and I am happy to withdraw any implication that ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 730 c1139 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, on the noble Lord’s point about the absence of a relocation direction, does not the power ...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 730 c1167 (Link to this contribution)
It is important to clarify this. I do not think anyone was suggesting that the public view was right...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 730 c1186-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord for giving way. As someone who has tried to un...
Lord Freeman | 730 c1158 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, from the Government Back Benches perhaps I may pay tribute to the work of my noble friend ...
Lord Rosser | 730 c1197-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I associate myself with the words of welcome already expressed to the noble Lord, Lord Hen...
Lord Judd | 730 c1181-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, like others I welcome the noble Lord, Lord Henley, to his new responsibilities, although, ...
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