Scotland Bill. Lords second reading debate, agreed to on question. Bill committed to a Committee of the Whole House.
Scotland Bill
Debate on bills on Tuesday, 6 September 2011,
in the House of Lords,
led by Lord Wallace of Tankerness.
The answering
member was Lord Davidson of Glen Clova.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
730 c156-272
Session
2010-12
Legislative stage
Second reading
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Scotland Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 79-EN also published.
Wednesday, 22 June 2011
Bills
House of Lords
Wednesday, 22 June 2011
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Earl of Shrewsbury | 730 c157 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, forgive me for intervening, but would it not be much more sensible, for a Bill of this con...
Show all contributions (85)
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 730 c157 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I only venture into this to say that I think that the Government are wise at all times to ...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 730 c157-60 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, both sides of the usual channels have no doubt heard the points that have been made. I rei...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 730 c160 (Link to this contribution)
The Bill abolishes the variable rate of income tax—the 3p rate, which was approved by a referendum o...
Lord Shutt of Greetland | 730 c156 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, when the business was laid and agreed by the usual channels—I am delighted that the noble ...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 730 c157 (Link to this contribution)
I support what the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, has said. By the way, Second Readings are divisible, bu...
Lord Soley | 730 c157 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I, too, support what has been said. I have a strong view about this, because I regard it a...
Lord Shutt of Greetland | 730 c157 (Link to this contribution)
I hear what the noble Lord says, but there are a lot of people here anxious to speak. There are in f...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 730 c156 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, as your Lordships’ House’s Constitution Committee said, "““The Scotland Bill is a measure ...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 730 c156 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister had said something very important: this Bill is a matter of clear constitutional signif...
Lord Sewel | 730 c187 (Link to this contribution)
I think that it would depend on what the tax was. If it was a tax on left-handed people, I would hap...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 730 c186 (Link to this contribution)
I hesitate to interrupt—I have said too much already tonight—but, just on that point, if we cannot b...
Lord Sewel | 730 c185-6 (Link to this contribution)
Treaties do—a treaty change would require unanimity. In terms of the normal day-to-day policy-making...
Lord Garel-Jones | 730 c185 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord mentioned qualified majority voting as being the norm, but I am sure that he would ag...
Lord Sewel | 730 c183-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, here we are again. It seems like only yesterday that we were discussing the Scotland Bill....
Lord Lang of Monkton | 730 c181-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I should perhaps begin by declaring an interest, or rather a lack of interest, in that I w...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 730 c179-81 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, as the first Member of your Lordships’ House contributing to this debate who has not held ...
Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale | 730 c178-9 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Lord, Lord Reid, for that point. It reinforces the argument I am making.
The cont...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 730 c178 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with almost everything that the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, said—which must be a first. On thi...
Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale | 730 c177-8 (Link to this contribution)
I was just coming to the issue of the increase in the budget. In the mean time, the budget has incre...
Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale | 730 c175-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I suppose that the starting phrase should be, ““Follow that!””. In any debate on the const...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 730 c174-5 (Link to this contribution)
A fixed-term referendum, as my noble friend says. Of course, I have always been a person who has sou...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 730 c177 (Link to this contribution)
One of the reasons it has not been used is because, when I was Secretary of State, the budget was ab...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 730 c172-3 (Link to this contribution)
First, I point out to my noble friend that it was in the manifestos of three parties at the last UK ...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 730 c171-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble and learned Lord. I very much agree with what he said...
Lord Cormack | 730 c174 (Link to this contribution)
A fixed-term referendum.
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 730 c173-4 (Link to this contribution)
My noble and learned friend has been here too long if he thinks that the electorate reads the manife...
Lord McCluskey | 730 c168-71 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I declare an interest, and not a patrimonial one. The First Minister of Scotland asked me ...
Lord Davidson of Glen Clova | 730 c164-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, we welcome this Bill in principle. Of course, it has been Labour, both in government and i...
Lord Selkirk of Douglas | 730 c193-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it gives me great pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Morgan, who is a very distinguis...
Lord Morgan | 730 c190-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I rise with a good deal of apprehension as the first non-Scot to speak and one of three no...
Lord Wigley | 730 c198-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I hope it will not be considered impertinent of me to contribute briefly to this debate. I...
Lord Maxton | 730 c200 (Link to this contribution)
That, of course, is not what the Scottish National Party wants. It wants an independent, separate st...
Lord Lyell | 730 c187 (Link to this contribution)
I have all that debate—it is in vol. 593 —here with me. After I have been able to speak in this deba...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 730 c187 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the late Donald Dewar once observed that devolution is not an event but a process. I very ...
Lord Sewel | 730 c187 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Lord very much for that intervention.
Perhaps I may focus on one last thing. The ...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 730 c187-90 (Link to this contribution)
That has lengthened my speech already, before I finished my first half-sentence. Anyway, it was attr...
Lord Sewel | 730 c187 (Link to this contribution)
This phrase that it is a process rather than an event is attributed to Donald Dewar. I spent some ti...
Lord Hughes of Woodside | 730 c218-20 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I wonder if I might as a brief introduction point out that, as some Members of your Lordsh...
Baroness Linklater of Butterstone | 730 c216-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, there are so many infinitely abler, wiser and more experienced speakers in this important ...
Lord Elder | 730 c215-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I start by declaring a minor interest as a member of the Calman commission which led to th...
Duke of Montrose | 730 c212-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I pick up the danger referred to by the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, of the way that the pushi...
Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws | 730 c227-30 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it will surprise none of your Lordships to hear that I am not going to speak about air gun...
Earl of Lindsay | 730 c230-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank my noble and learned friend the Minister for introducing the Bill to the House. I ...
Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 730 c220-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I welcome the Bill but I fear that in many ways it is too timid. The coalition Government ...
Earl of Shrewsbury | 730 c223-7 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, in welcoming this important Bill, I must declare my interests. I am the honorary president...
Lord Soley | 730 c234-7 (Link to this contribution)
I strongly believe in the United Kingdom as an entity. It is one of the most effective political and...
Lord Stephen | 730 c237-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I begin by agreeing with my noble friend Lord Soley that the timing of this debate, given ...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 730 c240-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, the case for devolution has been quite adequately presented by the last speaker, in so far...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 730 c244 (Link to this contribution)
Will my noble friend give way?
Earl of Caithness | 730 c243-4 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this Bill was introduced in the other place on 30 November last year, St Andrew’s Day; 21 ...
Lord Maxton | 730 c245-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, when I saw what my position I was on the list of speakers, and recognising the lateness of...
Earl of Caithness | 730 c245 (Link to this contribution)
No. I did not interrupt my noble friend. The time is late and I want to get on. I have almost come t...
Lord Maxton | 730 c246-7 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, quite. We have to get that case across. My first point is that we must make the case for the un...
Lord Wigley | 730 c247 (Link to this contribution)
The one area that the noble Lord has not touched on is the possible difference in social aspiration....
Lord Maxton | 730 c247 (Link to this contribution)
Those may be the social aspirations in London but I am not at all convinced. Certainly in several el...
Lord Lyell | 730 c248-50 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I start by thanking my noble and learned friend for his very clear exposition of this Bill...
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 730 c259-64 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I am delighted to stand at this Dispatch Box for the first time, with the sound of the wor...
Lord Gordon of Strathblane | 730 c258-9 (Link to this contribution)
I genuinely disagree with that observation. It is not a question of the overall representation of Sc...
Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale | 730 c258 (Link to this contribution)
Would the noble Lord want to comment on the fact that this whole debate, which has taken some severa...
Lord Gordon of Strathblane | 730 c256-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord, Lord Wallace, for introducing the Bill and sitting so ...
Viscount Younger of Leckie | 730 c253-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, my lowly position in the batting order is mitigated by the pleasure I have in following th...
Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke | 730 c250-3 (Link to this contribution)
Your Lordships can be reassured that I am not going to give a lengthy seminar on the Australian taxa...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 730 c265-6 (Link to this contribution)
That is a highly hypothetical question. The Scottish Parliament has already approved the proposals b...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 730 c266 (Link to this contribution)
Is that not rather anticipating that the Scottish Parliament would choose to reduce the level rather...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 730 c264-5 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, first I welcome and congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Browne of Ladyton, on his maiden spe...
Lord Sewel | 730 c265 (Link to this contribution)
Do I take it from that that if, ultimately, the Scottish Parliament decides that it does not accept ...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 730 c271-2 (Link to this contribution)
That is an important issue. Under present legislation, the Electoral Commission could be involved in...
Lord Soley | 730 c271 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister say what his thinking is about the electoral commission’s involvement in any refer...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 730 c266-9 (Link to this contribution)
The indications that have been given to us by those pressing the case for the change are that, to ad...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 730 c269 (Link to this contribution)
I know that the hour is late but that is not what the Bill says, unless I have misread it. It says t...
Lord McAvoy | 730 c210-2 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I will be particularly brief. I am not as erudite as many of those who have spoken so far,...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 730 c209-10 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I have no difficulty in welcoming this mild and tame devolution Bill. It is worth recognis...
Lord Boyd of Duncansby | 730 c206-9 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, it was a privilege to serve along with other Members of this House as a member of the Calm...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 730 c201-3 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, given the plethora of criticisms of this Bill, and of suggested amendments—I have one or t...
Lord Wigley | 730 c200-1 (Link to this contribution)
I am very familiar with the arguments about Spain fearing what will happen in Catalonia and the Basq...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 730 c200 (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord has put a lot of emphasis on the membership of the European Union, but does he recogn...
Lord Maxton | 730 c200 (Link to this contribution)
The fact is, however, that it never tells us exactly what it means by the term ““independence””.
Lord Wigley | 730 c200 (Link to this contribution)
Let me make it clear that if I used the term ““independence””, I would not use it in the way that UK...
Lord Wigley | 730 c200 (Link to this contribution)
I appreciate that that is the position of the SNP. I do not think it has been in any way coy about i...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 730 c160-4 (Link to this contribution)
The answer to that is that we have absolutely moved forward; the Scottish Parliament has been establ...
Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale | 730 c196-8 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, this Bill is the second major constitutional change for Scottish devolution that this Hous...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 730 c269-71 (Link to this contribution)
I do not think that my noble friend has that right. The principal point will be whether it is your s...
Lord Sanderson of Bowden | 730 c203-6 (Link to this contribution)
My Lords, I never thought that in this House I should have to agree with almost every word that the ...
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