Parliamentary search - Fixed-term Parliaments Bill

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

531 c359-89

Session

2010-12

Department

Cabinet Office

Legislative stage

Lords amendments

Procedure

Programme motions

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Fixed-term Parliaments Bill. Lords amendments. Explanatory Notes Bill 195-EN also published.
Tuesday, 24 May 2011
Bills
House of Commons

Fixed-term Parliaments Bill. Government response to the Political and Constitutional Reform Select Committee second report of session 2010-11 (HC 436).
Monday, 8 November 2010
Command papers
House of Commons

The Government's voting and Parliamentary reform proposals: Fixed-term Parliaments Bill. Political and Constitutional Reform Select Committee second report with formal minutes and written evidence.
Thursday, 9 September 2010
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Chris Bryant | 531 c388 (Link to this contribution) I broadly agree with what the Government have said. I would point out, however, that the Government,...

Chris Bryant | 531 c388 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way to the Minister, I am afraid. The Minister chose to oppose the amendments in th...

Show all contributions (108)

Chris Bryant | 531 c388-9 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to give way to the Minister. He has spoken plenty. This is the second occasion on wh...

Speaker | 531 c389 (Link to this contribution) Order. I now have to announce the results of Divisions deferred from a previous day. On the question...

Mark Harper | 531 c386 (Link to this contribution) Let me develop my argument, and I will cover the points raised by my hon. Friend. The concern in the...

Lord Watson of Wyre Forest | 531 c386 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I apologise to the Minister and to you, but given the ser...

Mark Harper | 531 c387 (Link to this contribution) We debated the issues of privilege, justiciability and whether the courts would seek to intervene in...

William Cash | 531 c387 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister not agree that, whether we adopted the original proposals in the Bill or the propo...

Mark Harper | 531 c386-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, Madam Deputy Speaker. The new version of clause 2 set out in the amendment spells ou...

Speaker | 531 c386 (Link to this contribution) Comments that are made outside the House are not the responsibility of the Chair. If the hon. Gentle...

Mark Harper | 531 c388 (Link to this contribution) I recognise that. The Government set out our reasons for disagreeing with that view, and I believe t...

William Cash | 531 c387 (Link to this contribution) The Clerk of the House, in his careful consideration of the issue, took the view, very strongly, tha...

William Cash | 531 c379 (Link to this contribution) There was a similar example in the Cromwellian period. There are great events taking place in the wo...

William Cash | 531 c385 (Link to this contribution) This 14-day period is simply a ruse, cobbled together by moving various Ministers around, in order s...

Mark Harper | 531 c384-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Lords amendment 4 leaves out the ““earlier or”” provisi...

Mark Harper | 531 c385-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is simply not right. We have had this debate before. It is important because it relat...

Speaker | 531 c385 (Link to this contribution) I think we get the point.

Speaker | 531 c383 (Link to this contribution) With this we may take Lords amendments 5 to 8.

Mark Harper | 531 c383 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House agrees with Lords amendment 4.

Speaker | 531 c383-4 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am sorry to interrupt the Minister, but I am finding it rather difficult to hear him, becau...

Mark Harper | 531 c383 (Link to this contribution) These amendments were moved in the other place and I want the House to agree to them, but I shall ta...

Jacob Rees-Mogg | 531 c386 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister explain a couple of things? First, is there another example in legislation of a mo...

Mark Harper | 531 c369 (Link to this contribution) As I said at the beginning of my remarks, I do not believe that the general public support the exerc...

Charles Walker | 531 c369 (Link to this contribution) The current system has served us pretty well for 350 years. The Minister cites other Parliaments aro...

Angus Brendan MacNeil | 531 c370 (Link to this contribution) I support the Minister's point. Even if it is Parliaments around the world that are only 20 or 30 ye...

Mark Harper | 531 c368 (Link to this contribution) My comments seem to have provoked interest. I shall give way first to my hon. Friend the Member for ...

Richard Shepherd | 531 c369 (Link to this contribution) I am startled by my hon. Friend's line of argument. I did toil through our election manifesto, and I...

Mark Harper | 531 c369 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend rightly says that we did not have a commitment to do this, but equally we had not pro...

William Cash | 531 c369 (Link to this contribution) I have no doubt that my hon. Friend will say that the sensible basis on which this amazing commitmen...

Mark Harper | 531 c369 (Link to this contribution) I would not characterise the relationship like that at all. A good case was made, and on this partic...

Mark Harper | 531 c369 (Link to this contribution) I promised earlier to give way to my hon. Friend.

Chris Bryant | 531 c372 (Link to this contribution) My contention and, I think, Lord Pannick's contention is that this is a fix in a different way, beca...

Naomi Long | 531 c372 (Link to this contribution) One definition of ““fix”” is:"““To place securely; make stable or firm””." Surely the Lords amendme...

William Cash | 531 c370 (Link to this contribution) Does the shadow Minister agree that the Bill has all the elements of an attempt to achieve a sort of...

Chris Bryant | 531 c371 (Link to this contribution) I think I agree with that, but I am not entirely sure. The bit I agreed with was in feeling sympathy...

Mark Harper | 531 c370 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right. As I said, when this House decided to legislate to set up the Scottish ...

Chris Bryant | 531 c370 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that the Minister did not impress me with his arguments. In particular, he referred to t...

Mark Harper | 531 c371 (Link to this contribution) I wanted to question something the hon. Gentleman said. He says that at the start of each Parliament...

Chris Bryant | 531 c371-2 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is absolutely right. That was a small slip of mine and the vote could happen at any tim...

Chris Bryant | 531 c371 (Link to this contribution) I was going to come to that matter in a few moments, but if the Minister wants me to come to it now ...

William Cash | 531 c373 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there are really interesting historical analogies? I am thinking ...

Naomi Long | 531 c372 (Link to this contribution) On the issue of fixing, would it not appear to be more of a fix if the Bill affected only one Parlia...

Chris Bryant | 531 c373 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not accept that, because the experience over the rather sad course of this Bill has been th...

Charles Walker | 531 c373 (Link to this contribution) No system is perfect, but we have had a fairly dynamic democracy over the past 350 years and by fixi...

Chris Bryant | 531 c373 (Link to this contribution) I have sympathy with that argument, but I also think that this is one of the changes towards a fixed...

Chris Bryant | 531 c372 (Link to this contribution) Let me finish my point. Lord Pannick also cited the Constitution Committee in the House of Lords, wh...

Mark Durkan | 531 c372 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. Earlier, he indicated to the Minister that he assumed that th...

Mark Harper | 531 c376-7 (Link to this contribution) Yes, forgive me—it was the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) who said it was a fag packet. This...

Richard Shepherd | 531 c377 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but my point was not as the Minister so kindly describes it. My point was that we are ta...

Mark Harper | 531 c376 (Link to this contribution) I want to pick my hon. Friend up on his point that this has been done on the back of a fag packet.

Richard Shepherd | 531 c376 (Link to this contribution) I did not say that—I said an envelope.

Richard Shepherd | 531 c376 (Link to this contribution) I agree with a lot of the points made by the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan). I am conscious tha...

Chris Bryant | 531 c373-4 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman does not mind, I will not, as I am keen to conclude my remarks. The Minister ...

Robert Syms | 531 c374 (Link to this contribution) It is this House that determines who the Government are. This is the majority House. As we know, the...

Chris Bryant | 531 c373 (Link to this contribution) No, I disagree, but we will come to that issue when we debate the second set of amendments about the...

Angus Brendan MacNeil | 531 c373 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Mark Harper | 531 c361 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a moment. If the Lords amendments were accepted, the electorate would have no ce...

Charles Walker | 531 c361 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister tell the House where that desire for public certainty in relation to a five-year P...

Mark Harper | 531 c361 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his intervention. The polling that has been carried out suggests...

William Cash | 531 c361 (Link to this contribution) Has it occurred to the Minister that part of the problem with this wretched Bill is that it is tryin...

Mark Harper | 531 c360 (Link to this contribution) I was not in the slightest disappointed that this House and the House of Lords—

Mark Harper | 531 c360 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. My short answer is that I was not disappointed.

Speaker | 531 c360 (Link to this contribution) Order. We must stick to the amendments.

William Cash | 531 c363 (Link to this contribution) When it comes to these Assemblies and other devolved organisations, we respect them, but the analogy...

Mark Harper | 531 c363-4 (Link to this contribution) That is not an analogy I would make with the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh Assembly and the Norther...

Richard Shepherd | 531 c362 (Link to this contribution) The Minister's proposition was a much disputed one. It was thought at one stage that Mr Major, when ...

Mark Harper | 531 c362-3 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that I want to conjure up visions of Cabinet Ministers throwing themselves in front of...

Chris Bryant | 531 c364 (Link to this contribution) Unless I misheard the Minister, he referred to section 7(4) of the Bill. I cannot find a section 7(4...

Mark Harper | 531 c364 (Link to this contribution) I am looking at the copy of the Bill as amended on Report from the House of Lords, which does have a...

Mark Harper | 531 c362 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that my hon. Friend is simply not right. That is not the current constitutional position...

William Cash | 531 c362 (Link to this contribution) I can assure my hon. Friend that the real question is not whether the Prime Minister wants to call a...

Mark Harper | 531 c361-2 (Link to this contribution) To be fair to my hon. Friend, Mr Deputy Speaker, he was speaking to the amendments that we are discu...

Speaker | 531 c361 (Link to this contribution) Order. We are not dealing with the whole Bill; we are dealing with the amendments. I am sure that th...

Mark Harper | 531 c366-7 (Link to this contribution) I agree. The hon. Gentleman has put it very well. Under the Bill as the Government want to see it—th...

Mark Harper | 531 c365-6 (Link to this contribution) I disagree with my hon. Friend. Even if we successfully push our proposals through in their current ...

Mark Harper | 531 c366 (Link to this contribution) I agree. The fact remains that we are taking powers away from this House and giving them to the othe...

Mark Durkan | 531 c366 (Link to this contribution) I recognise the strength of the Minister's arguments. The effect of the amendments, surely, would be...

Mark Harper | 531 c365 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman confuses the will of the House and the will of the Prime Minister. The scenario t...

William Cash | 531 c365 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for engaging in dialogue on this question, but the assumption, at any ...

Mark Harper | 531 c365 (Link to this contribution) That is not what I said at all. My specific point is about the relative powers of the two Houses, bu...

Chris Bryant | 531 c364-5 (Link to this contribution) The Minister's example is completely wrong. If this House voted—on the basis of the Government's and...

Graham Stringer | 531 c368 (Link to this contribution) I have not read the Conservative party manifesto recently, but so far as I remember it did not conta...

Mark Harper | 531 c368 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman sets me up very nicely for my final quotation. In this Bill's Second Reading deba...

Mark Harper | 531 c367-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for your guidance, Madam Deputy Speaker. My hon. Friend's points are probably more rel...

Speaker | 531 c367 (Link to this contribution) Order. We are straying quite a long way from the amendment. I am sure the Minister was about to poin...

William Cash | 531 c367 (Link to this contribution) Without going into all the questions relating to judicial supremacy and the claims of ultimate autho...

Mark Harper | 531 c367 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has put his finger on it. The provisions are completely silent about that. They d...

Mark Durkan | 531 c367 (Link to this contribution) Does any provision in the Lords amendments or the Bill specify or restrict who can table such a moti...

Speaker | 531 c378 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman knows that he is out of order. He is making points directly to his party. ...

Richard Shepherd | 531 c377-8 (Link to this contribution) I am trying to use the amendments to explain and understand what the Lords are doing. I appreciate t...

Speaker | 531 c377 (Link to this contribution) Order. I know that the hon. Gentleman feels strongly about this matter, but he is drifting from the ...

Richard Shepherd | 531 c378 (Link to this contribution) Of course, Madam Deputy Speaker. There was no way that I was going to rise to that fly. We will get ...

Speaker | 531 c378 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Mr Shepherd) and I can both guess whether he should ...

George Howarth | 531 c378 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for missing the beginning of the hon. Gentleman's speech. I wonder whether I may risk le...

Richard Shepherd | 531 c378 (Link to this contribution) I am obliged for the courteous and pleasant way in which that was said. Mirror, mirror on the wall, ...

Richard Shepherd | 531 c379 (Link to this contribution) Quoting Cromwell.

William Cash | 531 c378-9 (Link to this contribution) This was not in our manifesto. The people who voted for us certainly did not vote for fixed-term Par...

Speaker | 531 c360 (Link to this contribution) With this we may take Lords amendments 2 and 9.

Mark Harper | 531 c360 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House disagrees with Lords amendment 1.

Tristram Hunt | 531 c360 (Link to this contribution) Was the Minister disappointed, as I was, that their lordships did not seek to alter the limit for th...

Mark Harper | 531 c360 (Link to this contribution) I should like to make it clear that I am proposing that the House disagrees with their lordships on ...

Chris Bryant | 531 c372 (Link to this contribution) I suppose it is true that every Opposition will always want to take an opportunity to have an early ...

Speaker | 531 c361 (Link to this contribution) Order. It would be helpful if the hon. Gentleman could let us know which part of the amendment he is...

William Cash | 531 c365 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that the Minister is a Minister of the Crown, but he would get into difficult territory...

Charles Walker | 531 c378 (Link to this contribution) Fixed-term Parliaments: constitutional vandalism.

Mark Harper | 531 c387 (Link to this contribution) I will take one more intervention.

Mark Durkan | 531 c374-6 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to be able to agree with the thrust of the remarks of the hon. Member for Poole (Mr S...

Robert Syms | 531 c366 (Link to this contribution) Under the Bill, a large number of Members of the House must vote for a Dissolution. The person who d...

Subjects

General elections

Fixed-term parliaments

Dissolution

Parliament

Legislation

Fixed-term Parliaments Bill 2010-12

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk