Welfare Reform Bill. Report stage second day. Some amendments made. Third reading debate. Agreed to on division (288 votes to 238). Bill read a third time and passed.
Welfare Reform Bill
Debate on bills on Wednesday, 15 June 2011,
in the House of Commons,
led by John McDonnell.
The answering
member was Maria Miller.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
529 c798-892 
Session
2010-12
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Welfare Reform Bill. As amended in Public Bill Committee.
Tuesday, 24 May 2011
Bills
House of Commons
Tuesday, 24 May 2011
Bills
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Maria Miller | 529 c853 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Lady forgive me if I try to complete my remarks? I will give way if I have not answere...
Cathy Jamieson | 529 c854 (Link to this contribution)
Given the concerns about the term ““overlap””, will the Minister be absolutely specific about what s...
Show all contributions (238)
Maria Miller | 529 c854 (Link to this contribution)
Obviously we are looking at whether an individual has access to support, not at whether a care home ...
Maria Miller | 529 c853 (Link to this contribution)
If the hon. Lady will listen to my full remarks, I hope that she will be satisfied. We have made it ...
Sheila Gilmore | 529 c853 (Link to this contribution)
It is very important that the Minister clarifies exactly what is intended. Does she still intend at ...
Maria Miller | 529 c853 (Link to this contribution)
I will give way briefly.
Sheila Gilmore | 529 c853 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister give way?
Maria Miller | 529 c853 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps the hon. Lady can let me finish and see whether I have covered her point.
We will treat car...
Sheila Gilmore | 529 c852 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister give way?
Tom Clarke | 529 c851 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister give way?
Maria Miller | 529 c851-2 (Link to this contribution)
I hope the right hon. Gentleman will forgive me if I do not take many interventions, because I am ve...
Speaker | 529 c848 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure that there will be a conclusion in which the two points join together. I am not taking tha...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 529 c849 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Lady is doing the House a great service in teasing out the complexities, and in illustratin...
Anne Begg | 529 c848-9 (Link to this contribution)
My point is that if the Government take contributory ESA away from this group of people and then cha...
Maria Miller | 529 c850-1 (Link to this contribution)
It is absolutely right that we have a serious, considered and detailed debate on the reform of one o...
Anne Begg | 529 c849-50 (Link to this contribution)
Much of Monday's debate was about the fact that the regulations for PIP, for housing benefit and for...
Anne Begg | 529 c846-7 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Perhaps I should now speak to amendments 76 and 77, which I tabl...
George Hollingbery | 529 c847 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps I misunderstand the hon. Lady, but I think that I am right in saying that if those individua...
Anne Begg | 529 c848 (Link to this contribution)
That is exactly what I would like the Minister to clarify. I do not know whether there will be contr...
Stephen Timms | 529 c848 (Link to this contribution)
My understanding is that, even though they are in the support group, if they have not met the contri...
Anne Begg | 529 c848 (Link to this contribution)
That is my understanding also. There will be a group of people who will have paid the contributions ...
Maria Miller | 529 c848 (Link to this contribution)
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Although it is very interesting to hear about the ESA, it ac...
Fiona O'Donnell | 529 c845 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that anxiety is especially high among people with mental health problems? ...
Anne Begg | 529 c843-5 (Link to this contribution)
I suspect that many hon. Members will want to speak particularly about the removal of the higher-rat...
Jenny Willott | 529 c842-3 (Link to this contribution)
I am afraid that I will not, as I am aware that a lot of people want to speak.
I flagged up my conc...
Jeremy Corbyn | 529 c842 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Lady give way?
Jenny Willott | 529 c841-2 (Link to this contribution)
I have no idea whether the review will be published. I was commenting on the fact that the options o...
Jenny Willott | 529 c841 (Link to this contribution)
I am afraid that I am not taking any more interventions, as many Members want to participate in the ...
Jenny Willott | 529 c842 (Link to this contribution)
I am afraid that I shall disappoint the hon. Lady, but that is an issue for the Minister. I do not k...
Fiona O'Donnell | 529 c842 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Lady is very generous in giving way. How will this review, report and gathering of informat...
Margaret Curran | 529 c829 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. I know that he takes a great interest in this matter. T...
Peter Bottomley | 529 c829 (Link to this contribution)
Just to put it in plain English, are we agreed across the House that the mobility allowance, as it u...
Margaret Curran | 529 c828-9 (Link to this contribution)
I could not agree more. It was staggering how ill-informed the Prime Minister seemed to be about the...
Duncan Hames | 529 c829 (Link to this contribution)
I accept the hon. Lady's observations about the confusion over the Government's intentions. I think ...
Margaret Curran | 529 c827-8 (Link to this contribution)
We have reached a vital stage in our consideration of the Bill. Government proposals for the reform ...
Fiona O'Donnell | 529 c828 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend has referred to the Government not listening and not understanding. Does she share my...
Margaret Curran | 529 c830 (Link to this contribution)
This is getting embarrassing because, again, I could not agree with the hon. Gentleman more. He made...
Bill Esterson | 529 c830 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is making an extremely good case. One of my constituents has said that if the mobilit...
Margaret Curran | 529 c829 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, that is what we agree on. Our amendments would ensure that the Government do not have a blanket...
Ian Jnr Paisley | 529 c830 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Lady agree that what will be foisted on people tonight if we are not careful is a slei...
Jim Shannon | 529 c819 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. Many Members in all parts of the House know how the sys...
Bridget Phillipson | 529 c819-20 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak to this important group of amendments concerning the disc...
Ian Jnr Paisley | 529 c820 (Link to this contribution)
The point that the hon. Lady is making is critically important. A local authority might lay down a p...
Bridget Phillipson | 529 c820-1 (Link to this contribution)
I agree entirely. It is vital that people feel that appropriate safeguards are in place with a natio...
Speaker | 529 c826-7 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
John McDonnell | 529 c821 (Link to this contribution)
I will not delay the House any further because I think that colleagues from all Opposition parties h...
Peter Bottomley | 529 c826 (Link to this contribution)
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. We now come to a sensible grouping of amendments, to be cons...
Speaker | 529 c826 (Link to this contribution)
We will see how the debate goes, and I am sure that we will look favourably upon the issue when we g...
Margaret Curran | 529 c826 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move amendment 43, page 56, line 40, at end insert—
Simon Hughes | 529 c840 (Link to this contribution)
I understand where my hon. Friend is coming from, as she and I are signed up to the same position. L...
Jenny Willott | 529 c840 (Link to this contribution)
I do not believe that this is about means-testing of benefits. It is about looking for sources of st...
Ian Jnr Paisley | 529 c840 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the hon. Lady, who is being very good and lenient with her time. On the issue of ov...
Jenny Willott | 529 c839 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Lady completely misrepresents my words. I absolutely did not say that disabled people have ...
Cathy Jamieson | 529 c839 (Link to this contribution)
I have to confess that I am astonished to hear the hon. Lady suggest that disabled people would have...
Jenny Willott | 529 c839 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman shouts ““Shame””, but this is an information-gathering exercise to obtain evidenc...
Anne Begg | 529 c840 (Link to this contribution)
I appreciate that the hon. Lady is trying to get the Government off the hook by supporting this revi...
Jenny Willott | 529 c840 (Link to this contribution)
To risk the wrath that has been incurred by some colleagues on my side, I have to confess that I was...
Jenny Willott | 529 c840 (Link to this contribution)
That is exactly the position that I am putting forward. I am concerned, because clause 83 still leav...
Jenny Willott | 529 c838-9 (Link to this contribution)
I have just made it clear that no research has been done in the past, so there has been no evidence ...
Fiona O'Donnell | 529 c838 (Link to this contribution)
Under the hon. Lady's definition of overlapping provision for mobility needs, would she settle only ...
Jenny Willott | 529 c838 (Link to this contribution)
I rise to speak to the amendments tabled in my name, which focus on the mobility component of the di...
Margaret Curran | 529 c838 (Link to this contribution)
To the best of her knowledge, can the hon. Lady identify two examples of where overlap is a problem?...
Jenny Willott | 529 c838 (Link to this contribution)
I am about to come to my understanding of that point. Obviously, it is up to the Minister to determi...
Margaret Curran | 529 c836 (Link to this contribution)
I acknowledge that many disabled people and disability organisations are extremely concerned about t...
Mark Durkan | 529 c836 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Lady recognise that many people are concerned that as the costs of administering the a...
Margaret Curran | 529 c836-7 (Link to this contribution)
That test was introduced for the work capability assessment and the application of employment and su...
Stephen Lloyd | 529 c836 (Link to this contribution)
I understand where the hon. Lady is coming from, but does she agree that the Government have made go...
Margaret Curran | 529 c839 (Link to this contribution)
May I ask you to address the second part of my question, which was about the review? There are serio...
Jenny Willott | 529 c839 (Link to this contribution)
I think she means ““the hon. Lady””, rather than you, Mr Deputy Speaker. This is obviously an issue ...
Mark Tami | 529 c836 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that problems are also created by the period disabled people have to wait ...
Margaret Curran | 529 c835-6 (Link to this contribution)
I am afraid that I do not have specific numbers to hand, but I will make it my business to get that ...
Anne Begg | 529 c834 (Link to this contribution)
On the issue of extra fuel costs, one reason why the last Government—followed by this Government—sai...
Margaret Curran | 529 c834 (Link to this contribution)
Indeed, and for those of us who have experience of how families struggle through family illness or l...
Fiona O'Donnell | 529 c834 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that this is about more than the entitlement to DLA or PIP: it is about al...
Margaret Curran | 529 c833-4 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes a very strong point. The Macmillan cancer charity, which has already had an...
Jeremy Corbyn | 529 c835 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend have estimates of the cost of each of these interviews that will have to take pl...
Margaret Curran | 529 c835 (Link to this contribution)
Indeed, and there is often an impact on the wider family, not just the immediate family.
We believe...
Eilidh Whiteford | 529 c834-5 (Link to this contribution)
As it is carers week, it is also important to remember that when someone is having treatment in a ho...
Margaret Curran | 529 c836 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, absolutely, and we have an opportunity here to minimise that stress and to address the problems...
Margaret Curran | 529 c832-3 (Link to this contribution)
This is embarrassing, because hon. Members are putting the argument so much more effectively than I ...
Jim Shannon | 529 c833 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Lady has clearly outlined the issues in relation to the qualifying period. Is she aware, as...
Margaret Curran | 529 c830 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend for drawing our attention to his constituents' concerns. I am sure that he, a...
Margaret Curran | 529 c831 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes his point with great passion. We must bear in mind the context in which thi...
Mark Durkan | 529 c831 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Lady agree that many people will be perturbed and confused by the fact that the Govern...
Margaret Curran | 529 c831 (Link to this contribution)
If I made that mistake, I am very grateful for the opportunity to correct it. We are talking about t...
George Hollingbery | 529 c831 (Link to this contribution)
I have just a small point. I think I heard the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) say that P...
Margaret Curran | 529 c831-2 (Link to this contribution)
That is a very interesting observation, and I thank the hon. Gentleman for drawing it to the House's...
Stephen Lloyd | 529 c831 (Link to this contribution)
On that point, does the hon. Lady agree that under article 20 of the UN convention on the rights of ...
Liam Byrne | 529 c886 (Link to this contribution)
I am afraid that I will not—[Interruption.] No, because the Secretary of State talked for well over ...
Speaker | 529 c886 (Link to this contribution)
Order. Mr Rob Wilson, you have just toddled into the Chamber, do not shout across the Chamber in tha...
Liam Byrne | 529 c884-6 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for the chance to speak on Third Reading this evening. I am glad that the Bill has fin...
Iain Duncan Smith | 529 c886 (Link to this contribution)
Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Liam Byrne | 529 c886-8 (Link to this contribution)
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I say to Liberal Democrat Members tonight that today is the deadline for advi...
Tom Clarke | 529 c859 (Link to this contribution)
I hope to come to that point later. I welcome the fact that hon. Members from Northern Ireland have ...
Naomi Long | 529 c859 (Link to this contribution)
Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that one of the huge disappointments of the process is that, des...
Tom Clarke | 529 c859 (Link to this contribution)
I very much regret that that Minister did not give way to me on the one occasion that I asked her to...
Jim Shannon | 529 c859 (Link to this contribution)
Does the right hon. Gentleman think that this review has a pre-determined conclusion? Is he as conce...
Tom Clarke | 529 c859-60 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Lady makes a very good point.
The people who know the most about DLA know that it is very ...
Maria Miller | 529 c855-6 (Link to this contribution)
If the hon. Lady will forgive me, we are running very short of time.
Amendment 60 would have the un...
Jeremy Corbyn | 529 c857 (Link to this contribution)
Absolutely. My hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen South pointed out that there are some conditions ...
Peter Bottomley | 529 c857-9 (Link to this contribution)
Whether or not amendment 43 is needed, I am quite sure that the officials and others who do the asse...
Jeremy Corbyn | 529 c856-7 (Link to this contribution)
I will be brief because many other hon. Members wish to speak, and under the timetabling motion we h...
Stephen Lloyd | 529 c857 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman agree that that definition also perfectly describes people with multiple scl...
Maria Miller | 529 c854-5 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend will know that we are looking at this matter in some detail, and at the evidence on t...
Stephen Timms | 529 c855 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Member for Cardiff Central (Jenny Willott) argued that when the review has been carried out...
Maria Miller | 529 c855 (Link to this contribution)
We are not producing a report to consult on. What we will do is make our position clear, and then th...
Anne Begg | 529 c855 (Link to this contribution)
Related to that point, although it is slightly different, I wonder whether the Minister can allay th...
Maria Miller | 529 c855 (Link to this contribution)
I had a meeting with Motability yesterday to talk about these issues, which was one of many meetings...
Cathy Jamieson | 529 c855 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister give way?
Maria Miller | 529 c854 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Lady forgive me for moving on and making some more comments?
Opposition Members will ...
Margaret Curran | 529 c854 (Link to this contribution)
I cannot understand this. If, as the Government say, they are not removing the DLA mobility componen...
Maria Miller | 529 c854 (Link to this contribution)
We are not doing that. We are reviewing the situation. As the hon. Lady will of course know, we need...
Fiona O'Donnell | 529 c866 (Link to this contribution)
I absolutely will not withdraw my comment. This is not scaremongering. I am setting out exactly the ...
Fiona O'Donnell | 529 c865-6 (Link to this contribution)
As someone who became a Member only recently, I would rather that I was not called old-fashioned jus...
Stephen Lloyd | 529 c866 (Link to this contribution)
I hope the hon. Lady accepts that my determination and passion about, and commitment to, people with...
Fiona O'Donnell | 529 c864-5 (Link to this contribution)
In that case, I suggest that the hon. Lady holds back her support for the Government until she knows...
Fiona O'Donnell | 529 c864 (Link to this contribution)
I agree and I thank my hon. Friend for her contribution. I listened with interest to the speech the ...
Jenny Willott | 529 c864 (Link to this contribution)
I want to make it very clear that I was here for the whole of the Minister's contribution. The quest...
Fiona O'Donnell | 529 c864 (Link to this contribution)
I am delighted to contribute to the debate. I want to speak in particular about the review and possi...
Cathy Jamieson | 529 c864 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that the organisations she has listed would have a great deal to contribut...
Peter Aldous | 529 c863 (Link to this contribution)
I will be brief, Mr Deputy Speaker, as I know that others wish to catch your eye, and so I shall not...
Tom Clarke | 529 c862 (Link to this contribution)
I shall give way to the hon. Gentleman, because he has shown an interest in these matters.
Mark Durkan | 529 c862 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my right hon. Friend for giving way and commend him on his contribution. Is not the situatio...
Tom Clarke | 529 c862-3 (Link to this contribution)
As always, the hon. Gentleman has put his case beautifully.
As we head for the Division Lobby tonig...
Charlie Elphicke | 529 c860 (Link to this contribution)
Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Tom Clarke | 529 c860 (Link to this contribution)
I am talking about Ministers. The Chief Secretary did not give way, because I was going to ask him w...
Charlie Elphicke | 529 c860 (Link to this contribution)
Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Tom Clarke | 529 c861-2 (Link to this contribution)
No, I am not giving way, so the hon. Gentleman might just as well relax. If he had spoken to as many...
Charlie Elphicke | 529 c860 (Link to this contribution)
Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Tom Clarke | 529 c860 (Link to this contribution)
No, I will not. I should like to carry on.
The Prime Minister has given contradictory statements to...
Sheila Gilmore | 529 c869 (Link to this contribution)
I want to speak briefly to the question of three and six months, because the Government have said th...
Alan Reid | 529 c868-9 (Link to this contribution)
I am extremely grateful to the Minister for that—I wish that every time I spoke for a minute I could...
Speaker | 529 c878 (Link to this contribution)
The programme motion—
John McDonnell | 529 c878 (Link to this contribution)
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. We have just finished the Report stage of the Welfare Reform...
Speaker | 529 c878 (Link to this contribution)
I call Mr Duncan Smith.
Iain Duncan Smith | 529 c878 (Link to this contribution)
Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. It might be of assistance to the House to remind ...
Speaker | 529 c878 (Link to this contribution)
This seems to be a continuation of the debate on the programme motion, which was decided on Monday. ...
Fiona O'Donnell | 529 c866-7 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his support.
Let me talk about a few of the other people who lived a...
Mark Durkan | 529 c866 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that if people should be scared by anything, it should be not her question...
Fiona O'Donnell | 529 c868 (Link to this contribution)
All right; someone else will speak.
Alan Reid | 529 c867 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Lady give way?
Fiona O'Donnell | 529 c868 (Link to this contribution)
I know that. I am questioning whether the Minister understands that that is the situation we find ou...
Alan Reid | 529 c868 (Link to this contribution)
Surely the hon. Lady, as a Scottish Member, knows that it is up to the Scottish Parliament to decide...
Fiona O'Donnell | 529 c868 (Link to this contribution)
I absolutely take heed of that and apologise if I have taken too much of the House's time, but I fee...
Maria Miller | 529 c868 (Link to this contribution)
Yes, we do talk with the devolved Administrations, but I say to the hon. Lady that the point everyon...
Margaret Curran | 529 c868 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Alan Reid | 529 c868 (Link to this contribution)
I had wanted to speak tonight on my concerns about the proposal not to make any personal independenc...
Alan Reid | 529 c868 (Link to this contribution)
I am sorry, but there is no time.
What concerns me about the Bill as it stands is that those regula...
Iain Duncan Smith | 529 c881 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with my hon. Friend. That point is also powerfully made by the fact that nearly half of all ...
Speaker | 529 c881 (Link to this contribution)
Order. May I just remind Members that interventions should be brief? I know that the Secretary of St...
Steve Baker | 529 c881 (Link to this contribution)
I am most grateful to the Secretary of State. Will he join me in reminding the House that, by dint o...
Iain Duncan Smith | 529 c881 (Link to this contribution)
I will give way only once or twice more, and I give way now to my hon. Friend.
Steve Baker | 529 c881 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Secretary of State give way?
Sheila Gilmore | 529 c881 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Secretary of State give way?
Iain Duncan Smith | 529 c881 (Link to this contribution)
I have always said that the door is open to everybody to discuss the effects and how some of them ca...
Frank Dobson | 529 c883 (Link to this contribution)
In view of the complexities encompassed in the universal credit, does the Secretary of State serious...
Iain Duncan Smith | 529 c883-4 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Gentleman refers to complexities—he and I have discussed many issues before—and this ...
Sheila Gilmore | 529 c882 (Link to this contribution)
The Secretary of State wishes to present the Bill as being about people who are workless or feckless...
Iain Duncan Smith | 529 c882-3 (Link to this contribution)
If the hon. Lady had looked at what the cap covers, she would know that those on tax credit will be ...
Stephen Timms | 529 c879 (Link to this contribution)
Can the Secretary of State confirm, however, that people receiving oral chemotherapy and oral radio ...
Iain Duncan Smith | 529 c879 (Link to this contribution)
One moment, one moment. Let me finish, all right?
In reality, therefore, people on the work-related...
Frank Dobson | 529 c880 (Link to this contribution)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. To remain in order on Third Reading, is it not necessary to talk on...
Iain Duncan Smith | 529 c879-80 (Link to this contribution)
Not if they are on income-related benefit. Of course they will absolutely continue to get the income...
Sarah Newton | 529 c879 (Link to this contribution)
Given the shameless scaremongering in the Chamber today at Prime Minister's Question Time and during...
Iain Duncan Smith | 529 c878-9 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
I am conscious that we have only half an h...
Iain Duncan Smith | 529 c879 (Link to this contribution)
I was not going to pick up on that, but given that my hon. Friend has asked me, I will say that the ...
Speaker | 529 c880 (Link to this contribution)
That is correct. On Third Reading, all speakers must focus on what is in the Bill, not what is exclu...
Iain Duncan Smith | 529 c880-1 (Link to this contribution)
I agree, Mr Speaker, which is why I have done nothing but refer to the reasons for the Bill, the rat...
Simon Hughes | 529 c881 (Link to this contribution)
Before the Secretary of State leaves the benefit cap, let me say that I understand the reason for a ...
Mark Durkan | 529 c818 (Link to this contribution)
Is my colleague, like me, at a loss to understand how some hon. Members who are prepared to commend ...
Jim Shannon | 529 c818 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. She clearly has cause to represent people in relation to...
Jim Shannon | 529 c818 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his passion and his commitment. I would find it difficult to argue ag...
Yvonne Fovargue | 529 c816 (Link to this contribution)
I agree. This is no way to treat vulnerable individuals who are trying to obtain life's necessities....
Jeremy Corbyn | 529 c816 (Link to this contribution)
I am glad that my hon. Friend brings up the issue of private landlords because the majority of the p...
Yvonne Fovargue | 529 c815-6 (Link to this contribution)
I will not give way. I want to move on to the lack of an appeals process.
I regret the loss of the ...
Oliver Heald | 529 c816 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend share my concern about the remarks made by the hon. Member for Makerfield (Yvonn...
Priti Patel | 529 c816-7 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We are talking about taxpayers' money, so we have to be resource...
Priti Patel | 529 c816 (Link to this contribution)
One of the Bill's underlying principles is that it focuses resources on those who are the most vulne...
Jim Shannon | 529 c817 (Link to this contribution)
I am not against the principle of welfare reform, but I am against how it affects those people who r...
Naomi Long | 529 c817 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman agree that part of the difficulty is that in circumstances where people's fi...
Speaker | 529 c817 (Link to this contribution)
Order. I do not think that the hon. Member for Witham (Priti Patel) is giving way; she has concluded...
Karen Buck | 529 c805 (Link to this contribution)
The problem is that once we start creating a necessity for such an arrangement to be run at every si...
George Hollingbery | 529 c806 (Link to this contribution)
I do not suggest for a moment that what I said should be a prescription nationwide. I said simply th...
Karen Buck | 529 c806 (Link to this contribution)
I will do a deal with the hon. Gentleman. If he supports our amendment, I will accept his point. The...
John McDonnell | 529 c806 (Link to this contribution)
In my constituency we have done just that. A furniture fund has been set up by a voluntary organisat...
Karen Buck | 529 c806 (Link to this contribution)
That is an excellent point. As we have said so many times in debating this Bill, one does not necess...
John McDonnell | 529 c806 (Link to this contribution)
Many of us have been through the same exercise that my hon. Friend described to establish credit uni...
Karen Buck | 529 c806 (Link to this contribution)
That is absolutely right. We need to carry on growing the local expertise and the local voluntary an...
Karen Buck | 529 c807-9 (Link to this contribution)
That is absolutely right. The Government mention credit unions as part of the package of alternative...
Jim Shannon | 529 c807 (Link to this contribution)
I commend credit unions to all Members for the work they do, but for those in financial difficulties...
Ian Jnr Paisley | 529 c810 (Link to this contribution)
What is the Minister going to do to ensure that the operation of the social fund across the devolved...
Maria Miller | 529 c809-10 (Link to this contribution)
I know that the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) is keen for us to make progress today...
George Hollingbery | 529 c800 (Link to this contribution)
I am listening to the hon. Gentleman with interest. Would he like to comment on the observation made...
John McDonnell | 529 c798-9 (Link to this contribution)
Amendment 53 relates to the abolition of the social fund and addresses a number of the concerns that...
Sheila Gilmore | 529 c799 (Link to this contribution)
We in Scotland have had four years' experience of the removal of ring-fencing, supposedly to free up...
John McDonnell | 529 c801-2 (Link to this contribution)
I understand, and, coming from a local government background—both as a councillor and as a local gov...
Karen Buck | 529 c802-5 (Link to this contribution)
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) on the way in whi...
John McDonnell | 529 c800-1 (Link to this contribution)
I appreciate that argument, but there is a difference between having a national system and having a ...
Brandon Lewis | 529 c801 (Link to this contribution)
I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's generosity in giving way, but I would query what he is describing....
George Hollingbery | 529 c805 (Link to this contribution)
I would counterpoint that on the basis that it is entirely possible to imagine a financial arrangeme...
Karen Buck | 529 c805 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. The Government's mindset is an old-fashioned one. There is ...
Sheila Gilmore | 529 c805 (Link to this contribution)
Is it not also the case that many of the arrangements for people to purchase second-hand furniture a...
Yvonne Fovargue | 529 c814 (Link to this contribution)
I do. It is difficult for local authorities to provide a consistent service. As we have heard, peopl...
John McDonnell | 529 c813 (Link to this contribution)
I do not want to get drawn into discussions about blue Labour, and I understand the hon. Lady's anxi...
Maria Miller | 529 c813-4 (Link to this contribution)
There have already been conversations with local government, and as I think Opposition Front Bencher...
Yvonne Fovargue | 529 c814 (Link to this contribution)
As we have heard, the discretionary social fund currently consists of budgeting loans for managed ex...
Bill Esterson | 529 c814 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend talks about the involvement of local authorities. Several of my constituents have con...
Yvonne Fovargue | 529 c815 (Link to this contribution)
I completely agree. The Government's approach seems to be predicated on a view that local management...
Jeremy Corbyn | 529 c815 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend makes an important point. This is a serious and acute problem in London. Given that t...
Yvonne Fovargue | 529 c815 (Link to this contribution)
I absolutely accept that, but some people do not want to be forced to use such charities as their on...
Oliver Heald | 529 c815 (Link to this contribution)
I might have misunderstood the hon. Lady, but is she really criticising the charities that provide s...
Yvonne Fovargue | 529 c815 (Link to this contribution)
I shall return to the issue of domestic violence. Who will be the responsible authority? If people m...
Maria Miller | 529 c814 (Link to this contribution)
I apologise for intervening on the hon. Lady, but may I clarify that people will be able to access t...
Stephen Timms | 529 c811 (Link to this contribution)
We learned in Committee that although council tax is delegated to local authorities, investigations ...
Maria Miller | 529 c810 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Lady forgive me if I make a little more progress? As I have said, we really need to mo...
Bridget Phillipson | 529 c811 (Link to this contribution)
May I draw the Minister's attention to one group of people who might fall into that category? Victim...
Maria Miller | 529 c810 (Link to this contribution)
The national payments on account will be dealt with on a national basis in the same way in any part ...
Naomi Long | 529 c810 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister give way on that second point?
Maria Miller | 529 c812-3 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. I too was thinking about some of the speeches earlier t...
Steve Baker | 529 c812 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend share my slight puzzlement that the left seems to have abandoned the rich tradit...
Maria Miller | 529 c812 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Lady will know that we have had a call for evidence, and we will be considering the many di...
Karen Buck | 529 c812 (Link to this contribution)
Why does the Minister think that almost every specialist organisation, voluntary group and charity i...
Maria Miller | 529 c811-2 (Link to this contribution)
Local authorities will be free to consider whether they need to set up their own service locally or ...
John McDonnell | 529 c798 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move amendment 53, page 52, line 21, leave out clause 69.
Speaker | 529 c798 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Maria Miller | 529 c852-3 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Lady forgive me if I do not give way now? Perhaps if I do not cover her point, she can...
Stephen Timms | 529 c841 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister has said that she does not envisage the results of the review being published. If I und...
Bill Esterson | 529 c819 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes a strong case for his concerns about the loan system. What worries me, read...
Margaret Curran | 529 c834 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend for that point, which reinforces why we should not accept the Government's pr...
Charlie Elphicke | 529 c865 (Link to this contribution)
I thank the hon. Lady for her great courtesy and generosity in taking interventions, and for her old...
Jenny Willott | 529 c842 (Link to this contribution)
I will give way one more time.
Jenny Willott | 529 c840 (Link to this contribution)
I give way first to the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley).
Ian Jnr Paisley | 529 c832 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Lady agree that throughout all of this—no matter how it is dressed up or how Oppositio...
Duncan Hames | 529 c854 (Link to this contribution)
I have heard very clearly the Minister's assurances in her remarks so far, but I am at a loss as to ...
Maria Miller | 529 c868 (Link to this contribution)
Given the strength of feeling on this matter, from my hon. Friend and others, I am happy to give a f...
John McDonnell | 529 c799-800 (Link to this contribution)
I hope that my hon. Friend will forgive me: I forgot about the experience in Scotland. What she desc...
Maria Miller | 529 c811 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Lady is obviously a mind reader, because I was just about to talk about whether the changes...
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Timestamp
2024-02-08 19:26:00 +0000
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