UK Parliament / Open data

NHS Reorganisation

Opposition day on Wednesday, 16 March 2011, in the House of Commons, led by John Healey. The answering member was Lord Lansley.
Thirteenth opposition day debate (part two). Negatived on division (224 to 305).
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
525 c374-420 
Session
2010-12
Department
Department of Health
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 525 c383 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman needs to moderate his language. I would grateful if he withdrew the word “...
Helen Jones | 525 c410 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry—I have not got time. [Interruption.] Other Members are waiting to speak and I will not gi...

Show all contributions (192)
Andrew George | 525 c408 (Link to this contribution) I am prepared to talk to anyone who wants to engage constructively in improving the Bill to ensure t...
Andrew George | 525 c407-8 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Angela Smith), who made a...
Angela C Smith | 525 c408 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman indicating that he would be prepared to talk to Labour Front Benchers on meani...
Andrew George | 525 c409 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I do not have time. The idea that the Bill will drive integration and social care ...
Helen Jones | 525 c409-10 (Link to this contribution) In the devastation that followed the second world war, this country had the courage and the vision t...
Andrew George | 525 c409 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. Indeed, that is a very encouraging indication of the fact tha...
John Pugh | 525 c409 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend give way?
Angela C Smith | 525 c406-7 (Link to this contribution) All I will say to the hon. Gentleman is that I worked in the NHS as one of the so-called bureaucrats...
Henry Smith | 525 c406 (Link to this contribution) I am interested to hear the tale of life in the NHS before the Labour Government and now, because un...
Angela C Smith | 525 c406 (Link to this contribution) I will give way once and no more, because I want other Members to have an opportunity to speak.
Liz Kendall | 525 c412-3 (Link to this contribution) The Minister of State, Department of Health, the right hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns), also s...
Dan Poulter | 525 c413 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Lady is so concerned about competition and markets, why did the previous Government intr...
Liz Kendall | 525 c412 (Link to this contribution) What patients want is their views and voices to be heard. As the hon. Lady well knows, eight of the ...
Grahame Morris | 525 c412 (Link to this contribution) May I point out that yesterday, in an Adjournment debate in Westminster Hall about the future of the...
Helen Jones | 525 c410 (Link to this contribution) I have said no. The hon. Lady was not even here for the beginning of the debate. It is not sufficie...
Liz Kendall | 525 c411-2 (Link to this contribution) This debate is about one of the most important issues facing this House and this country: the future...
Baroness Morgan of Cotes | 525 c412 (Link to this contribution) I know that the hon. Lady is a hard-working fellow Leicestershire MP, but I disagree with her. Is no...
Helen Jones | 525 c410-1 (Link to this contribution) I have made my view clear, so the hon. Gentleman is wasting his time. The expertise will be swept aw...
Liz Kendall | 525 c413-4 (Link to this contribution) I am sure the hon. Gentleman knows that Monitor was established as part of the regulation of foundat...
Paul Burstow | 525 c414-5 (Link to this contribution) I start by thanking the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) for attending the L...
Angela C Smith | 525 c415 (Link to this contribution) Shirley Williams described the level playing field to which the hon. Gentleman refers as ““lousy””. ...
Paul Burstow | 525 c415 (Link to this contribution) I am looking forward to further dialogue with my noble Friend to ensure that we deliver the importan...
Owen Smith | 525 c420 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. You were not in the Chair at the conclusion of the Oppositio...
Speaker | 525 c420 (Link to this contribution) How long the Minister wishes to speak for is not a matter for the Chair. The Minister spoke, the deb...
Lord Lansley | 525 c388 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman was not satisfied with his first speech, so he had to have a go at a second...
John Healey | 525 c388 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way. We had the NHS as the preferred provider and...
Edward Leigh | 525 c388 (Link to this contribution) This party political ding-dong is great fun, but what worries me is that we have an ageing populatio...
Lord Lansley | 525 c387 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very important point. I caution Labour Members not to put political opportuni...
Lord Lansley | 525 c387-8 (Link to this contribution) I want to make progress. I have given way several times. The right hon. Member for Wentworth and De...
Lord Lansley | 525 c387 (Link to this contribution) Yes. I can entirely reassure the right hon. Gentleman's constituents because the Bill makes it clear...
Lord Lansley | 525 c386 (Link to this contribution) No, I have given way to the hon. Gentleman before. [Interruption.] He only gets one shot. Let me ma...
Anne Main | 525 c386 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that we should totally dissociate ourselves from the disgraceful rem...
Lord Lansley | 525 c386 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give way—Labour Members might like to hear this. Our cuts in bureaucracy have led to...
Rosie Cooper | 525 c390 (Link to this contribution) I have spoken in this place on several occasions about the deeply disturbing reforms that the Govern...
Lord Lansley | 525 c389-90 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I have to conclude to ensure that we do not trample on Members' time. ...
Speaker | 525 c389 (Link to this contribution) Order. The Secretary of State has decided that he is not going to give way. That is his decision. He...
Lord Lansley | 525 c389 (Link to this contribution) No. We will hold the NHS to account—[Interruption.]
Lord Lansley | 525 c389 (Link to this contribution) Over many years as Chair of the Public Accounts Committee, my hon. Friend challenged the failure of ...
Speaker | 525 c391 (Link to this contribution) Order. That is not a point of order, because the accusation was not against individual Members.
Lord Evans of Rainow | 525 c391 (Link to this contribution) I am new to the House, but I seem to recall the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham), who was ...
Speaker | 525 c391 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Lady will have to sit down during the hon. Gentleman's intervention.
Lord Evans of Rainow | 525 c391 (Link to this contribution) When he was Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Leigh said that we should be celebrating"“...
Rosie Cooper | 525 c391 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, I did not hear the end of that.
Rosie Cooper | 525 c391 (Link to this contribution) The health service was not an issue at the general election, and why? Because people broadly support...
Anne Main | 525 c391 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. On two occasions the hon. Lady has accused the Government of...
Rosie Cooper | 525 c391 (Link to this contribution) No, I have very little time now. I believe that what Michael Portillo said on the BBC's ““This Week...
Rosie Cooper | 525 c391-2 (Link to this contribution) Oh how the truth hurts! Michael Portillo could not have been more clear that the Government intended...
Speaker | 525 c392 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I just remind Members that the Chair is not responsible? I would be pleased if we did not...
Nadhim Zahawi | 525 c393 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that this is political opportunism of the worst kind?
Stephen Dorrell | 525 c392-3 (Link to this contribution) I understand the point, and it is part of the argument that the Labour party has started to make abo...
Tom Blenkinsop | 525 c392 (Link to this contribution) The Bill gives primacy to Monitor, which makes economic decisions. It does not give primacy to quali...
Grahame Morris | 525 c393 (Link to this contribution) I am doubly honoured, because the right hon. Gentleman has afforded me a courtesy that the Secretary...
Stephen Dorrell | 525 c393 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, who is another member of the Health Committee.
Grahame Morris | 525 c393 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Stephen Dorrell | 525 c393 (Link to this contribution) It is, but it is not even political opportunism that applies to a popular principle. Surely opportun...
Steve Brine | 525 c393 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way on that point?
Stephen Dorrell | 525 c394 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend will forgive me, I will not. There are two other important principles, one of whi...
Stephen Dorrell | 525 c393 (Link to this contribution) I thought that the hon. Gentleman was going to make the point that he has made in the Select Committ...
Debbie Abrahams | 525 c395 (Link to this contribution) No, I am sorry, I want to make some progress—[Hon. Members: ““Give way!””]
Debbie Abrahams | 525 c395 (Link to this contribution) Not only are the founding principles of the NHS in danger of being wiped out, but its culture—the re...
Debbie Abrahams | 525 c394-5 (Link to this contribution) This costly reorganisation of the NHS has no mandate from the British people, and no support from he...
Debbie Abrahams | 525 c395 (Link to this contribution) No, I am sorry, I am going to make progress so that everyone gets a chance to speak. The Government...
Debbie Abrahams | 525 c395-6 (Link to this contribution) My first question to the Secretary of State was about the proposal that the NHS commissioning board ...
John Pugh | 525 c396 (Link to this contribution) I am glad to be called to speak. I had a hand in drafting both amendments and the motion in that it ...
Karl Turner | 525 c398 (Link to this contribution) It is a privilege to follow the hon. Member for Southport (John Pugh). Like him, I am a member of th...
Nadine Dorries | 525 c398 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Greg Mulholland | 525 c397 (Link to this contribution) I pay tribute to the work that my hon. Friend is doing on the Bill. Does he agree that, as with the ...
John Pugh | 525 c396-7 (Link to this contribution) I think it is Hobson's choice. This is not the first health reform—the last Government introduced m...
Dan Poulter | 525 c399-400 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to speak after the great tour de force that we heard from my right hon. Frien...
Karl Turner | 525 c399 (Link to this contribution) I am well aware of my hon. Friend's remarks, and they were made in a very different context, but let...
Christopher Pincher | 525 c398-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman seems to favour top-down organisation of the NHS. Does he agree with his party's ...
Karl Turner | 525 c398 (Link to this contribution) Not at the moment. The Government Front-Bench team and its Lib Dem colleagues can argue against wha...
Dan Poulter | 525 c400 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman might wish to listen to this, but I will take his intervention.
Owen Smith | 525 c400 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has returned to this point about bureaucracy many times during our proceedings in...
Dan Poulter | 525 c400-1 (Link to this contribution) What we do know—the hon. Gentleman would do well to listen to this—is that the NHS currently spends ...
Grahame Morris | 525 c401 (Link to this contribution) We have heard about the layers of bureaucracy that the coalition Government propose to take away, bu...
Speaker | 525 c401 (Link to this contribution) Order. We must have shorter interventions.
Paul Blomfield | 525 c402 (Link to this contribution) Over Christmas, I found myself using the services of the Royal Hallamshire hospital in Sheffield for...
Dan Poulter | 525 c401-2 (Link to this contribution) This is very much the point. Let us not forget that Monitor was introduced by the Labour party to re...
Paul Blomfield | 525 c402 (Link to this contribution) I will give way once and then make some progress.
Paul Blomfield | 525 c402-3 (Link to this contribution) What bears eloquent testimony to who really cares about the NHS is our record. Before 1997, I rememb...
Christopher Pincher | 525 c402 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman talks about Government Members, but he might note that, other than those on the F...
Ben Gummer | 525 c403 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Paul Blomfield | 525 c403 (Link to this contribution) No. I have said it once: I have given way, and will not give way again, because I want to make progr...
Dan Poulter | 525 c403 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Paul Blomfield | 525 c403 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I will not; I said that I would give way once and then make progress. I hope that ...
Mark Simmonds | 525 c404 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield), who I thought was...
Paul Blomfield | 525 c404 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. The Royal College of Nursing says that it"““cannot support the removal of the privat...
Angela C Smith | 525 c405-6 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to take part in this important debate. Health i...
Mark Simmonds | 525 c405 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for the point that she has forcefully made. A few—not all—on the Opposition B...
Baroness Morgan of Cotes | 525 c405 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making a powerful argument. Does he agree that it is rather tragic—nay, even worse...
Lord Lansley | 525 c385 (Link to this contribution) I think I know why he has changed his mind.
Andrew Bridgen | 525 c385 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that the words of the shadow Secretary of State in this debate seem ...
Lord Lansley | 525 c385-6 (Link to this contribution) Yes, that is one possibility. Another is that Labour Members are paid for by the trade unions. Our ...
Lord Lansley | 525 c385 (Link to this contribution) The Royal College of General Practitioners has said that it believes that there should be more clini...
Joan Ruddock | 525 c385 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman speaks of the respect that patients have for their GPs, and that is certain...
Lord Lansley | 525 c386 (Link to this contribution) Yes. I am grateful to my hon. Friend and pay tribute to his work in this area, which is much respect...
John Baron | 525 c386 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is absolutely right to make no apology about the need for reform when cancer ou...
Owen Smith | 525 c386 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
John Healey | 525 c381 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. We have misinformation and confusion. If the Health Secretary disagrees wit...
Lord Lansley | 525 c381-2 (Link to this contribution) The Labour motion is interesting. I will ask the House to reject it, but it is an interesting motion...
Clive Efford | 525 c382 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State distance himself from the comments of Dr Charles Alessi, a GP alleged to...
John Healey | 525 c380 (Link to this contribution) Let me finish. The Government's explanatory memorandum is helpful on the issue of EU law. It says, a...
John Healey | 525 c380 (Link to this contribution) This is a debate. People in the country and in the NHS are worried not about we did in government—th...
Owen Smith | 525 c380-1 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend has anticipated the point that I was going to make. As we heard clearly in Comm...
Lord Lansley | 525 c379 (Link to this contribution) It is dead simple: the Health and Social Care Bill does not extend the application of EU competition...
John Healey | 525 c379 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman was involved, so he knows better than anyone else that the Tories are now s...
Michael Dugher | 525 c383 (Link to this contribution) I might be new to Parliament, but we ask the questions and he is supposed to answer them. The Secret...
Michael Dugher | 525 c383 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Lord Lansley | 525 c383 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, and perhaps he can explain why the Labour party leading the W...
Grahame Morris | 525 c382 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Lord Lansley | 525 c382 (Link to this contribution) No. The fact is terribly clear that before the election the Labour Government said that in three ye...
Nadhim Zahawi | 525 c382 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that the way in which the Opposition are conducting themselves, when...
Lord Lansley | 525 c382 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point, and he made it to the shadow Secretary of State, who d...
Lord Lansley | 525 c382 (Link to this contribution) All GPs and their colleagues who were part of the first wave of pathfinders were invited to No. 10—t...
Owen Smith | 525 c383 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Lansley | 525 c383 (Link to this contribution) Ah! Now we really do have somebody who can explain why in Wales the Labour party is cutting the NHS ...
Owen Smith | 525 c383-4 (Link to this contribution) That is happening as a result of the very difficult decisions being taken in Wales, having seen the ...
Lord Lansley | 525 c384 (Link to this contribution) Let us remember that, when we decided to support the NHS here, through the Barnett formula by extens...
Brandon Lewis | 525 c384 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that some GPs are seeing the potential benefits to their local areas...
Lord Lansley | 525 c384 (Link to this contribution) Yes. My hon. Friend will know that we have already arrived at the point where 177 GP groups, represe...
Michael Dugher | 525 c383 (Link to this contribution) I withdraw ““shower””. Is it not just arrogant for the Government to think that everybody else is w...
Speaker | 525 c383 (Link to this contribution) Order. It was not an opportunity to ask another question, either.
Lord Lansley | 525 c383 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has now learned that, if one is trying to pray somebody in aid, it is best not to...
Lord Lansley | 525 c385 (Link to this contribution) In a moment. Only yesterday, the Public Accounts Committee said that over the past 10 years the pro...
Nick Raynsford | 525 c385 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Lansley | 525 c384 (Link to this contribution) No. I have given way to the hon. Gentleman. Only yesterday—
Joan Ruddock | 525 c385 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Speaker | 525 c384 (Link to this contribution) Order. Come on; we want to see the debate continue. A lot of Members want to speak and to intervene,...
Lord Lansley | 525 c384 (Link to this contribution) I remember that if we ask the public whom they trust in public service, we find that general practit...
Kate Green | 525 c384 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
John Healey | 525 c375 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a moment. The test for the Prime Minister is whether the Government's proposals ...
Speaker | 525 c374 (Link to this contribution) I advise the House that neither of the amendments has been selected by Mr Speaker. I remind Members ...
John Healey | 525 c374 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That this House supports the founding principles of the National Health Service (NHS)...
John Healey | 525 c376 (Link to this contribution) Let me send the hon. Gentleman a copy of the Labour manifesto, because we set out exactly how we cou...
John Healey | 525 c376 (Link to this contribution) I am just responding to the hon. Gentleman's colleague, so I ask him to be patient. We set out exact...
David Evennett | 525 c375 (Link to this contribution) I always thought that the right hon. Gentleman was a reformer at heart, but he obviously is not, giv...
John Healey | 525 c375 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman needs to read some of the material for himself, rather than just reading the brie...
Henry Smith | 525 c376 (Link to this contribution) Let us consider something more quantifiable. Is the right hon. Gentleman in favour of more or less b...
John Healey | 525 c375-6 (Link to this contribution) One of the problems—we all know this, and the new Government will be faced with it in exactly the sa...
Mark Pritchard | 525 c375 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman not accept that with an annual budget of £100 billion and rising, ther...
Rehman Chishti | 525 c375 (Link to this contribution) Has the shadow Health Secretary seen the consultation responses to the White Paper, which show wides...
John Healey | 525 c375 (Link to this contribution) Nobody can doubt our commitment to the NHS, and to both investment and reform, during our 13 years i...
John Healey | 525 c377 (Link to this contribution) There is someone else who needs a copy of the Labour manifesto. He almost used his six minutes' allo...
John Healey | 525 c377 (Link to this contribution) I am going to move on. If that is the best the Conservatives can do, I am going to move on. The tru...
John Healey | 525 c376 (Link to this contribution) This is such a big and fundamental change to the NHS that £140 million is the best guess. Clearly, a...
Tom Blenkinsop | 525 c376 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) has told us that Monitor's budget will i...
John Healey | 525 c376 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend does a great job in ensuring that this Government are held to account on the NHS thro...
Grahame Morris | 525 c376 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the Secretary of State, too, would share his thoughts about how money will be saved on burea...
Nadhim Zahawi | 525 c377 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman wisely started by saying that there is room for reform. The right hon. Memb...
John Healey | 525 c377 (Link to this contribution) I am going to make some progress. We are all conscious of your encouragement to do that, Madam Deput...
John Healey | 525 c377 (Link to this contribution) The Liberal Democrats are quick to try to claim credit for other people's successes, and quick to tr...
Simon Hughes | 525 c376-7 (Link to this contribution) Having listened to the debate at our party conference on Saturday, the right hon. Gentleman will kno...
John Healey | 525 c379 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State can speak in a minute; I will finish this point. The regulator can investigat...
Steve McCabe | 525 c378 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that there is room for reform, but not room to risk the GP-patient r...
Sajid Javid | 525 c378 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. Gentleman for giving way so generously. He has mentioned the Labour manifesto...
John Healey | 525 c378 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right: this reorganisation and legislation leave no part of the NHS untouched. One...
Lord Lansley | 525 c378 (Link to this contribution) On precisely that point about scrutiny and accountability, we have been talking about independent se...
John Healey | 525 c378 (Link to this contribution) We were doing what the manifesto said before the election. [Interruption.] We were doing it where th...
Lord Lansley | 525 c379 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
John Healey | 525 c379 (Link to this contribution) That is simply not true. The people who will make the big decisions about £80 billion of spending—th...
Lord Lansley | 525 c379 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
John Healey | 525 c379 (Link to this contribution) Shall I finish what I have to say? Then I will give way. If the Health Secretary has not told the Pr...
Speaker | 525 c390 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind Members that there is a six-minute limit.
Nadine Dorries | 525 c403 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
John Healey | 525 c381 (Link to this contribution) It is time the Health Secretary told us who is fully in support of the NHS reorganisation and the le...
Simon Hughes | 525 c382-3 (Link to this contribution) I share absolutely my right hon. Friend's view that the protection of the budget and the commitment ...
Stephen Dorrell | 525 c408 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the case he is making is reinforced by the fact that our right hon. F...
Malcolm Wicks | 525 c387 (Link to this contribution) Given the removal of the limit on private patients who can go to an NHS hospital, my constituents wi...
Stephen Dorrell | 525 c392 (Link to this contribution) I serve on the Select Committee on Health with the hon. Member for West Lancashire (Rosie Cooper), w...
John Pugh | 525 c397-8 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. In the circumstances that my hon. Friend cites, both coalition parties listened to the voice...
Nadine Dorries | 525 c396 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for having the good grace to give way. Would he describe the 5,000 GPs wh...
Margot James | 525 c380 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has already acknowledged that competition and markets were a hallmark of th...
Lord Lansley | 525 c383 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend was busy in Sheffield over the weekend, but he might have heard me say on Sunda...
Lord Lansley | 525 c385 (Link to this contribution) No. I will give way to the right hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Joan Ruddock) first.
John Healey | 525 c374-5 (Link to this contribution) I will give way shortly. Yesterday the British Medical Association delivered a comprehensive vote o...
Subjects
Cost effectiveness
Competition
Finance
EU law
General practitioners
Private sector
NHS
Reorganisation
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
Back to top