UK Parliament / Open data

Fixed-term Parliaments Bill

Debate on bills and Committee of the Whole House (HC) on Wednesday, 1 December 2010, in the House of Commons.
Fixed-term Parliaments Bill. Committee stage debate (third day). Clause 2 amendments debated. Clause 2-4 agreed on division (306 to 218). Schedule agreed as amended on question. Bill reported.
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
519 c825-88 
Session
2010-12
Department
Cabinet Office
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Fixed-term Parliaments Bill. Explanatory notes also published (Bill 64-EN).
Thursday, 22 July 2010
Bills
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Mark Harper | 519 c826 (Link to this contribution) Her Majesty the Queen appoints the Prime Minister. If the Prime Minister were to behave in an uncons...
Chris Bryant | 519 c827 (Link to this contribution) I must say that this is the second very worrying route the Minister has gone down. He is saying that...

Show all contributions (133)
Richard Shepherd | 519 c865 (Link to this contribution) If that is so—and I accept it as such—why does it not apply to the statute itself?
Chris Bryant | 519 c865 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is right in saying that the main difference is that the matter would have to be dealt w...
Andrew Turner | 519 c866 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend understand that the Committee had to rush through its work on this Bill and the ...
Mark Harper | 519 c866 (Link to this contribution) That was also the experience of the Lords Constitution Committee—and, in fact, we have not been rush...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c864-5 (Link to this contribution) I beg to suggest that, if the Minister had listened carefully to what I said earlier, he would have ...
Mark Harper | 519 c868 (Link to this contribution) No, I think there is a rather crucial difference. The powers in that Act are given to a Minister—the...
Mark Harper | 519 c868 (Link to this contribution) But the hon. Gentleman is keen to get in.
Mark Harper | 519 c867-8 (Link to this contribution) The Committee was quite right. I agree that we need to ensure that the courts do not question those ...
Geoffrey Cox | 519 c861-2 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not think that. Intense pressure is precisely what an independent judiciary is set up to re...
Charles Walker | 519 c857 (Link to this contribution) I shall admonish my children for not being better read.
Geoffrey Cox | 519 c860 (Link to this contribution) I had not intended to speak, and I shall be extremely brief. Most of my remarks will be addressed to...
Robert Buckland | 519 c859-60 (Link to this contribution) I rise to make a brief contribution. I have listened with great interest to the debate and I await w...
Chris Bryant | 519 c862 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Gentleman is making an important contribution, and he is right about the reluct...
Mark Harper | 519 c864 (Link to this contribution) Let me just finish this point, then I will take an intervention from my hon. Friend. Standing Order...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c864 (Link to this contribution) At the risk of repeating what I have already read out from the Speaker's memorandum, I want to ensur...
Geoffrey Cox | 519 c862-3 (Link to this contribution) What is the point of a certificate? It is not going to be challenged in a court, because the Governm...
George Howarth | 519 c862 (Link to this contribution) The issuing or non-issuing of a certificate is a slightly false comparison. The issuing of a certifi...
Chris Bryant | 519 c856 (Link to this contribution) He wants to sing. Sing for Britain.
Charles Walker | 519 c857 (Link to this contribution) My children once asked me, ““What does a heffalump look like?”” I said, ““You'll know one when you s...
Mark Harper | 519 c869-70 (Link to this contribution) My hon. and learned Friend makes a point that relates to the use of certificates, but what he descri...
Geoffrey Cox | 519 c869 (Link to this contribution) Let us suppose that the Speaker issued a certificate that omitted one of the matters that the statut...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c870-1 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful, Mr Evans, for the opportunity to reply to the debate. I regret that I feel comp...
Mark Harper | 519 c826 (Link to this contribution) It is not an invention; it is the constitutional position.
Richard Shepherd | 519 c826 (Link to this contribution) So that is the Minister's new interpretation of a constitution, or of defined practice over the year...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 519 c826 (Link to this contribution) I cannot think of an example of such a position since the reign of Queen Victoria, who refused to ac...
Mark Harper | 519 c825-6 (Link to this contribution) Being in this position almost persuaded me of the merits of knives, which at least enable us to conc...
Jesse Norman | 519 c846 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend distinguish between two things: judicial activism, where there is extraordinaril...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c846-7 (Link to this contribution) I am perfectly prepared to accept that point. I refer to judicial activism only because there are ch...
Jesse Norman | 519 c847 (Link to this contribution) Was not there an example in the 1970s of whether a Member had been able to vote? There was a tied vo...
Mark Durkan | 519 c848 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied that either the Bill or amendment 6 would protect against judicial i...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c848 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. The amendment, as drafted by my hon. Friend the Member for S...
Chris Bryant | 519 c848-9 (Link to this contribution) Many thanks are due to the hon. Member for Harwich and North Essex (Mr Jenkin), who has done us a gr...
Mark Harper | 519 c845 (Link to this contribution) For the avoidance of doubt, the Government's position is that they are not in favour of moving to wh...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c849 (Link to this contribution) If the Parliamentary Voting Systems and Constituencies Bill had been separate Bills, I do not think ...
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 519 c843 (Link to this contribution) I would like to clarify that the judicial review case brought by my noble kinsman was not in any way...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c843-5 (Link to this contribution) I stand corrected—again. I fear that that may occur rather often during my presentation. The case re...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c845 (Link to this contribution) I do not remember that being a great issue in the general election, but we are, in effect, creating ...
Jesse Norman | 519 c854 (Link to this contribution) I do not wish to comment on the procedure or intention of the European Courts, but I note merely tha...
Chris Bryant | 519 c851 (Link to this contribution) In a sense, that is an argument against the whole Bill which I understand. I know that the hon. Gent...
Richard Shepherd | 519 c851 (Link to this contribution) I am a little puzzled as to why the hon. Gentleman comes to the conclusion that this needs to be cod...
Peter Soulsby | 519 c828 (Link to this contribution) Although we may well accept that the scenarios we are talking about are unlikely, they are none the ...
Mark Harper | 519 c828-9 (Link to this contribution) The fact is that some of these things can happen under our existing constitutional position; they ar...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 519 c827 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend reassure the Committee that it is the Government's intention to fulfil their dut...
Mark Harper | 519 c826-7 (Link to this contribution) I am not relying on it for the passage of the Bill. I was referring to the issue raised by my hon. F...
Richard Shepherd | 519 c835 (Link to this contribution) We wanted to press the amendment to a Division, Ms Primarolo.
Richard Shepherd | 519 c835 (Link to this contribution) I should like to press amendment 5 to a vote, with the consent of my hon. Friend the Member for Ston...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c843 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 6, page 2, line 15, leave out subsection (3) and insert—
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c843 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 6 stands in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash), who, as I mentioned...
Chris Bryant | 519 c832 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is right in relation to the Falkland Islands, and I believe that the House has also sat...
Mark Harper | 519 c831 (Link to this contribution) As I said, my hon. Friend the Member for Stone is away on parliamentary business and, as he has perh...
Mark Harper | 519 c834 (Link to this contribution) I think I have set out why I do not think that that is likely. As we have heard, there are lots of t...
Mark Harper | 519 c865 (Link to this contribution) I think we have touched on that before. Once the Bill becomes an Act of Parliament, it cannot be cha...
Tristram Hunt | 519 c866 (Link to this contribution) The point was that we did not have enough time to hear other voices that might have agreed with the ...
Mark Harper | 519 c865-6 (Link to this contribution) I will not dwell on this issue at length, Mr Evans, because if I did so you would rule me out of ord...
Mark Harper | 519 c866-7 (Link to this contribution) I am prepared to accept that consideration of the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bil...
Mark Harper | 519 c865 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend cited in the letter from Robert Rogers a reference to existing Standing Orders, which...
Mark Durkan | 519 c868 (Link to this contribution) But what we are talking about is related to the closest equivalent in the Northern Ireland Act 1998 ...
Mark Harper | 519 c868 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes my point for me. He accurately sets out the fact that at issue was not a pr...
Chris Bryant | 519 c868 (Link to this contribution) Sorry, but the Minister is using the phrase ““proceedings in Parliament”” as though it were a self-e...
Mark Durkan | 519 c868 (Link to this contribution) I gave the example from 2001 when, on the third attempt, David Trimble and I were jointly elected as...
Chris Bryant | 519 c867 (Link to this contribution) The Minister seems to suggest that all the evidence apart from that of the Clerk of the House falls ...
Geoffrey Cox | 519 c860-1 (Link to this contribution) I see my hon. Friend nodding sagely. That provision therefore must have a function. If that function...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c861 (Link to this contribution) We all know that we are talking about heated and potentially controversial circumstances. If there w...
Mark Durkan | 519 c857-9 (Link to this contribution) I will acknowledge these interventions no further. To return to the matter at hand, let us be clear...
Mark Harper | 519 c864 (Link to this contribution) I had a conversation with the Clerk about the certification, with the majority being specified. The ...
Mark Harper | 519 c864 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for those kind words from my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Torridge and West ...
Geoffrey Cox | 519 c863 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Tristram Hunt) quoted the recent judgment of Lord Philli...
Geoffrey Cox | 519 c862 (Link to this contribution) I have heard that observation made, and I hope that the Minister will be able to address it. I do no...
Mark Durkan | 519 c857 (Link to this contribution) I have a lot of sympathy with what the hon. Gentleman says, and that was why I indicated my support ...
Chris Bryant | 519 c857 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend point out to the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker) that there is a picture ...
Tristram Hunt | 519 c855 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman and with the fundamental basis of his analysis, which is that the co...
Richard Shepherd | 519 c855-6 (Link to this contribution) I am more and more puzzled about the Bill as we go on, but there are two propositions in this group ...
Mark Durkan | 519 c856-7 (Link to this contribution) Like the hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Mr Shepherd), I shall speak in support of amendments 6...
Jesse Norman | 519 c856 (Link to this contribution) No. Hon. Members will be pleased to hear that I do not propose to sing, but I am pleased to report t...
Richard Shepherd | 519 c856 (Link to this contribution) And formidable handicaps they often are. The endeavour of my hon. Friend the Member for Stone and t...
Geoffrey Cox | 519 c870 (Link to this contribution) We are dealing with a fundamentally different sphere here. Whether or not a Bill is a money Bill is ...
Mark Harper | 519 c868-9 (Link to this contribution) No, and that leads to where I was going, which was to turn to amendment 6 and to explain why we are ...
Mark Harper | 519 c870 (Link to this contribution) If a certificate was issued by the Speaker, we would be having an election, not stopping one taking ...
Speaker | 519 c888 (Link to this contribution) I now have to announce the results of the Division deferred from a previous day. In the Division on ...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 519 c825 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Jacob Rees-Mogg | 519 c826 (Link to this contribution) I think that that is extraordinarily unlikely. It is theoretically possible that the Queen could ref...
Mark Harper | 519 c826 (Link to this contribution) I did say that there would have to be an extraordinary set of circumstances for the Prime Minister t...
Richard Shepherd | 519 c826 (Link to this contribution) By what constitutional authority does the Minister cite the extraordinary proposition that the long ...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c845-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that assurance. The Minister, who in all these debates has shown impeccable manner...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c847-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend adverts to an extremely relevant precedent. What would happen if a two-thirds majorit...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c843 (Link to this contribution) Sorry, 1689. My hon. and learned Friend will keep me up to the mark, because he is much more of a la...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c845 (Link to this contribution) There we are. Perhaps that is why the Opposition support the Bill. We have just had a Division in wh...
Tristram Hunt | 519 c845 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman think, therefore, that the amendment goes far enough? The solution, as the C...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c845 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely important point, to which I shall return. The entire Bill coul...
Chris Bryant | 519 c845 (Link to this contribution) To clarify, I think the Liberal Democrats were in favour of a written constitution, and we were in f...
Tristram Hunt | 519 c854-5 (Link to this contribution) I, too, shall speak to amendment 6, which would take us some way in the direction in which we should...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c855 (Link to this contribution) Bluntly, what the hon. Gentleman is averting to is a power struggle. The question is whether the Hou...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c854 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making an extremely important point about the European Court of Human Rights. As s...
Chris Bryant | 519 c851-2 (Link to this contribution) That is an interesting point. The Bill of Rights refers, I think in section 9, to the fact that proc...
Jesse Norman | 519 c852-4 (Link to this contribution) I wish to speak in favour of the amendment. First, may I congratulate my hon. Friend and neighbour t...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c851 (Link to this contribution) What the hon. Gentleman is suggesting might well be sensible in one respect, but I fear that it will...
Chris Bryant | 519 c849-50 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. As the hon. Gentleman said earlier, a privileges Act will be needed at some point, and I hop...
Mark Harper | 519 c828 (Link to this contribution) I am not setting out particular scenarios. I was making the point that we can set out some theoretic...
Chris Bryant | 519 c829 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is right, of course. In fact, at present Members of the House of Lords are fiercely con...
Mark Harper | 519 c829 (Link to this contribution) There are two issues there. I will not dwell on the money Bill issue to any great extent, because if...
Mark Durkan | 519 c829-30 (Link to this contribution) As the Minister just appeared to touch on, under the Bill the Speaker issues the certificate only af...
Mark Harper | 519 c830-1 (Link to this contribution) I shall deal with the specific amendments shortly, when I set out why the Government think that they...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c831 (Link to this contribution) I have been in touch with my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash), who makes things complicate...
Mark Harper | 519 c827 (Link to this contribution) I am not setting out anything that is groundbreaking; this is the position that exists now. I agree ...
Mark Harper | 519 c827 (Link to this contribution) The position is that Her Majesty the Queen appoints Prime Ministers and the ultimate constitutional ...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c827 (Link to this contribution) Her Majesty would have to take advice on such occasions. From whom would she take advice?
Mark Harper | 519 c827 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. I can certainly say on behalf of this Government that this Government and this Prime Min...
Bernard Jenkin | 519 c827 (Link to this contribution) I think it would help the Committee if the Minister could cite an academic paper, some judicial text...
Mark Harper | 519 c828 (Link to this contribution) Her Majesty would, indeed, take advice from, for example her Privy Council and her other legal advis...
Chris Bryant | 519 c828 (Link to this contribution) Let us be absolutely clear: as I understand it, the Minister is saying that if the Prime Minister we...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 519 c839 (Link to this contribution) When, after voting, Members remain in the Lobby behind the Speaker's Chair, they need to be quiet; o...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 519 c835 (Link to this contribution) I need to hear you pressing the amendment, Mr Shepherd. I need you to shout louder for me. I am happ...
Mark Harper | 519 c834-5 (Link to this contribution) I shall not attempt to rush forward to the certification procedure, because we will debate it when w...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 519 c843 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Mark Harper | 519 c832-3 (Link to this contribution) For the purposes of this particular set of motions, the only business that we would be talking about...
Mark Harper | 519 c831-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a good point, which has been raised by others. I believe I am right in sayi...
Chris Bryant | 519 c831 (Link to this contribution) As it happens, I agree with the Minister on this amendment. However, the one area that it will be wo...
Lord Dodds of Duncairn | 519 c834 (Link to this contribution) Of course, the Minister is right about the reality and the politics of the situation. He should reme...
Mark Harper | 519 c833 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend says that that is indeed the purpose of the amendment. However, I think amendment 37 ...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 519 c833 (Link to this contribution) I fully appreciate the Minister's point. Amendments 36 and 37 might well be technically defective—in...
Subjects
General elections
Fixed-term parliaments
Dissolution
Prime Minister
Powers
Speaker
Divisions
Censure motions
Legislation
Fixed-term Parliaments Bill 2010-12
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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