Parliamentary search - Crime and Security Bill

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

507 c32-121

Session

2009-10

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Third reading and Report stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Crime and Security Bill. As amended by the Crime and Security Bill Committee.
Tuesday, 23 February 2010
Bills
House of Commons

Legislative scrutiny: Crime and Security Bill; Personal Care at Home Bill; Children, Schools and Families Bill. Human Rights Joint Select Committee twelfth report with formal minutes and written evidence.
Tuesday, 23 February 2010
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Viscount Hailsham | 507 c104-5 (Link to this contribution) I want to make only three points, two of which are essentially on drafting. However, I shall first a...

Humfrey Malins | 507 c103-4 (Link to this contribution) A very fine sight, if I may say so, particularly on the rugby field in the old days and the golf cou...

Show all contributions (125)

Humfrey Malins | 507 c105 (Link to this contribution) I may not get another opportunity to say to the Minister that in all my dealings with him over the y...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 507 c105 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to hon. Members for their contributions to the debate. I especially appreciate the con...

James Brokenshire | 507 c101-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes his point well about the insidious impact that domestic violence has on tho...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 507 c103 (Link to this contribution) For the record, I was looking at Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Humfrey Malins | 507 c102-3 (Link to this contribution) I should like to say a few words about domestic violence protection notices and speak to amendments ...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 507 c105-6 (Link to this contribution) In that case, I shall not kick the hon. Gentleman too hard this evening. That is only fair, as he ma...

James Brokenshire | 507 c106 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister not think it somewhat strange that a notice that could contain largely the same pr...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 507 c107 (Link to this contribution) I am comfortable with it, because the objective of domestic violence protection orders is to be expe...

Bob Spink | 507 c111 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that if intimidation, extortion, violence or some other harassment wer...

Andrew Rosindell | 507 c110-1 (Link to this contribution) I think we all welcome the substance of what the wheel-clamping measures are intended to achieve. Du...

Viscount Hailsham | 507 c109-10 (Link to this contribution) The amendments fall into three categories. The first covers amendments 55 to 58, the second encompas...

Speaker | 507 c109 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: amendment 56, page 92, line 3, leave out '...

Viscount Hailsham | 507 c109 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 55, page 92, line 1, leave out from 'conviction' to 'to' in line 2.

Robert Flello | 507 c108 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate the fact that my right hon. Friend the Minister has accepted amendments 1 and 2. I woul...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 507 c107-8 (Link to this contribution) What I have said is, first, that the circumstances that I have described are likely to be a rare occ...

Viscount Hailsham | 507 c107 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for what the Minister has said, but I think that he is accepting that if a court or ot...

Andrew Rosindell | 507 c111 (Link to this contribution) No doubt the Minister will respond shortly, but I agree that two years should be the maximum and tha...

Paul Robert Holmes | 507 c111 (Link to this contribution) The Government are trying to introduce a complex and bureaucratic procedure to deal with the problem...

Alan Campbell | 507 c111-3 (Link to this contribution) Let me say in response to the hon. Member for Chesterfield (Paul Holmes) that we had an extensive de...

Speaker | 507 c114 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that the right hon. Gentleman's amendments were not reached, but we were acting under the...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 507 c113 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. You will have noticed that that the only issue of real subs...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 507 c114-6 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third Time. I thank the hon. Members for Hornchurch (J...

Chris Huhne | 507 c120-1 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief, because we have made our position clear as we have debated the various groups of a...

Lord Field of Birkenhead | 507 c119-20 (Link to this contribution) I rise to give almost unqualified support to the Bill. Given the list of measures for which the Gove...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 507 c121 (Link to this contribution) With the leave of the House, may I respond to the points made by my right hon. Friend the Member for...

Robert Flello | 507 c97 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that children effectively begin to criminalise themselves by becomin...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 507 c97 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The whole purpose of the injunction is to remove people from cri...

James Brokenshire | 507 c98 (Link to this contribution) Unlike the Minister, I intend to be brief. I heard what the Minister said, and there are clearly is...

Robert Flello | 507 c99 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 1, page 72, line 21, at end insert—

Chris Huhne | 507 c97 (Link to this contribution) Could the Minister explain to the House how a custodial sentence would not involve criminalising the...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 507 c97-8 (Link to this contribution) I have tried to explain that the gang injunction is about trying to have an intervention that is not...

Robert Flello | 507 c101 (Link to this contribution) I just wish to clarify something in the hon. Gentleman's opening remarks, and I look forward to the ...

James Brokenshire | 507 c100 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, South (Mr. Flello) on following up a number of th...

Robert Flello | 507 c99-100 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 1 relates to the welfare of children in domestic violence situations. I am sure that the w...

Speaker | 507 c99 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: amendment 21, in clause 25, page 73, line ...

Tony Baldry | 507 c59-60 (Link to this contribution) May I come to that point in a second? I gave way, but I shall just finish my point about the Home Af...

Chris Huhne | 507 c59 (Link to this contribution) It seems to me that it is crucial for the hon. Gentleman to recognise that on both sides of the Hous...

Tony Baldry | 507 c58-9 (Link to this contribution) We are enjoined in both the Old and New Testaments to love justice, seek mercy and walk humbly with ...

William Cash | 507 c62 (Link to this contribution) I just do not believe in written constitutions or in the charter of fundamental rights. I believe in...

Chris Huhne | 507 c62 (Link to this contribution) In a very fine pamphlet recently, Peter Oborne and his co-author pointed out that the European conve...

William Cash | 507 c61-2 (Link to this contribution) I very much agree with my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (M...

Tony Baldry | 507 c60-1 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that the state's having my DNA profile would intrude on my personal activities. Howeve...

Chris Huhne | 507 c60 (Link to this contribution) This is a fundamental issue. The hon. Gentleman says that it would not be prejudicial for all people...

Tony Baldry | 507 c60 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend, who has witnessed even more wash-ups than I have, gives some sensi...

Viscount Hailsham | 507 c60 (Link to this contribution) In reality, of course, the Bill will not become law unless there is consent across all parties, beca...

Viscount Hailsham | 507 c47 (Link to this contribution) What one has to resolve is the prejudice to the individual of having their DNA on a national databas...

Keith Vaz | 507 c46-7 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that we are able to have a debate of this kind on this very important subject, bearin...

Chris Huhne | 507 c51-3 (Link to this contribution) Of course it is a deterrent, and of course any crime scene will be searched for DNA, which will auto...

Viscount Hailsham | 507 c51 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree with the proposition that because DNA provides such an important and e...

Viscount Hailsham | 507 c56-8 (Link to this contribution) This whole question raises some very troubling issues. It is one about which reasonable-minded peopl...

Andrew Dismore | 507 c53-6 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to my Committee's report on this part of the Bill and the amendments in my name that...

Chris Huhne | 507 c50-1 (Link to this contribution) I am always delighted to follow the right hon. Member for Leicester, East (Keith Vaz) who, as usual,...

Keith Vaz | 507 c47-50 (Link to this contribution) I would not say that the right hon. and learned Gentleman was in court every day, but he is there mu...

Chris Huhne | 507 c51 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to the right hon. and learned Gentleman in a few moments. The increase in the data...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 507 c66 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will have an answer to his parliamentary question as quickly as possible, but we ...

James Brokenshire | 507 c72 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Lord Hanson of Flint | 507 c66-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making it up as he goes along. I have told the House that I will respond to hi...

Chris Huhne | 507 c66 (Link to this contribution) It is very important that the House hears what the Minister just admitted. He admitted that the info...

Chris Huhne | 507 c81 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, South (Mr. Flello), who speaks a lot of g...

Robert Flello | 507 c77-80 (Link to this contribution) Although alcohol misuse was discussed at some length in Committee, I feel that more time should have...

James Brokenshire | 507 c72-7 (Link to this contribution) We turn now to an area of policy and law that is very different from that of DNA retention, which we...

Speaker | 507 c72 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment 23, in clause 55, page 101, line 20, leave out ...

Lord Deben | 507 c81 (Link to this contribution) Does it not surprise the hon. Gentleman that the Government never held any proper consultation with ...

William Cash | 507 c62 (Link to this contribution) As ever, I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend. He and I think almost identically on these matte...

Richard Shepherd | 507 c62 (Link to this contribution) I noticed how my hon. Friend let go by the contention of the hon. Member for Eastleigh (Chris Huhne)...

William Cash | 507 c63 (Link to this contribution) Regretfully, that is correct. That is why, when I was shadow Attorney-General, I recommended, and my...

Viscount Hailsham | 507 c62-3 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend's views on proportionality in this case, but the fact is, as my hon. Fri...

Chris Huhne | 507 c63 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way, particularly as it allows me more time to prattl...

William Cash | 507 c63-4 (Link to this contribution) In the context of DNA and the potential invasion of privacy, while allowing for the benefits of the ...

Speaker | 507 c63 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am hesitant to intervene, but I am sure that when the hon. Gentleman responds he will relat...

Chris Huhne | 507 c66 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister tell me when he intends to answer my parliamentary question?

Lord Hanson of Flint | 507 c64-6 (Link to this contribution) I thank colleagues for a useful and reflective debate on some important and key issues for the House...

James Brokenshire | 507 c91 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

James Brokenshire | 507 c87 (Link to this contribution) That is the point. I was genuinely trying to make the point sensibly, and not in a partisan way, so ...

Alan Campbell | 507 c86 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman should talk to his Front-Bench team about that, because that is precisely w...

James Brokenshire | 507 c86-7 (Link to this contribution) Well, we have certainly got the Minister excited on this point. I do not know whether that is the pe...

Alan Campbell | 507 c86 (Link to this contribution) I give way one last time.

Lord Deben | 507 c86 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to intervene again, but I am trying to avoid the temptation to make a speech. What the Mi...

Alan Campbell | 507 c85-6 (Link to this contribution) It is entirely up to local authorities. If they want to hold it in abeyance while they consider othe...

James Brokenshire | 507 c85 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister intend this to be a mainstream measure, or is it, too, intended to be a measure of...

Lord Deben | 507 c84 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the Minister can give me a single other example in legislation in which a power is ...

Alan Campbell | 507 c84 (Link to this contribution) I apologise. Clearly I have not explained to the right hon. Gentleman exactly what I am saying. I am...

Chris Huhne | 507 c84 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister confirm that no local authority is currently expressing any interest in applying th...

Alan Campbell | 507 c82-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making that point, because progress is being made. One of th...

Lord Deben | 507 c83 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister tell the House of discussions that he has had with local authorities in recent mont...

Alan Campbell | 507 c83-4 (Link to this contribution) There have been discussions precisely on that point to ensure that some of the criticisms about bure...

Chris Huhne | 507 c81 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is right to say that in a rational, well-ordered world where Ministers were...

Alan Campbell | 507 c81-2 (Link to this contribution) This has been an informative, if short, debate, in which there has been some agreement and some disa...

Chris Huhne | 507 c97 (Link to this contribution) Breaching.

Lord Hanson of Flint | 507 c97 (Link to this contribution) With due respect to the hon. Gentleman, our proposals state that there are clear support mechanisms ...

Speaker | 507 c91 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: amendment 24, page 78, line 9, leave out C...

James Brokenshire | 507 c91-3 (Link to this contribution) The measures concern the separate issue of gang injunctions. The Conservatives certainly recognise t...

Chris Huhne | 507 c93 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief so as not to labour the point. We accepted in Committee that in some circumstances ...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 507 c93-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Member for Hornchurch for tabling his amendments. I hope that he will welc...

Lord Deben | 507 c95 (Link to this contribution) I am following the Minister very carefully, but I still find it difficult to understand the issue. H...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 507 c95-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman's contribution. In Committee, we discussed the likely age...

Chris Huhne | 507 c96 (Link to this contribution) The Minister knows perfectly well why I cannot agree. My position is clear from what I said in my sp...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 507 c96 (Link to this contribution) I wanted to get that response on the record in order to knock it back. The proposal is not about cri...

James Brokenshire | 507 c45-6 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps it is the mindset that this Government have always had of always erring on the side of the B...

James Brokenshire | 507 c43-4 (Link to this contribution) A mini-speech perhaps, but one with some important points wrapped up in it as regards the need for p...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 507 c44 (Link to this contribution) If the Government's proposals resulted in stopping one murder or one rape, would they not be worth w...

James Brokenshire | 507 c44 (Link to this contribution) The point is that the Minister has sought to advance various individual cases to prove that our appr...

Viscount Hailsham | 507 c44 (Link to this contribution) I always hate to disagree with my hon. Friend, but he will know the point that I made in Committee a...

James Brokenshire | 507 c44 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. and learned Friend for highlighting that case, as he did in Committee...

Keith Vaz | 507 c44 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not feel that those who advance the one case of finding a rapist or other cr...

James Brokenshire | 507 c44 (Link to this contribution) I would always hesitate to make law based on individual cases, but that in no way undermines the con...

Graham Stuart | 507 c44 (Link to this contribution) I was shocked by the Minister's intervention just now. His form of logic would strip away all civil ...

Tony Baldry | 507 c43 (Link to this contribution) Since the Bill came out of Committee, I have been reflecting on what stands between us and the Gover...

Viscount Hailsham | 507 c40 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend making a distinction between crimes which are detected and cases which are carried...

James Brokenshire | 507 c40 (Link to this contribution) There is a distinction to be drawn between, say, detections and convictions. That is an important di...

Speaker | 507 c34-9 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: new clause 5- Destruction of fingerprints ...

James Brokenshire | 507 c39-40 (Link to this contribution) There is little doubt about the scope and powerful effect of DNA evidence. In many respects, the use...

Lord Hanson of Flint | 507 c41 (Link to this contribution) I have been trying to follow the hon. Gentleman's logic. He is content for DNA to be taken for up to...

James Brokenshire | 507 c41-3 (Link to this contribution) Well, we shall come to the judgment on timing. I was just about to turn to retention, which is cent...

Keith Vaz | 507 c40 (Link to this contribution) I am sure the hon. Gentleman would be the first to admit that the Government have moved since Second...

James Brokenshire | 507 c41 (Link to this contribution) That has been highlighted by what might be described as the postcode lottery, an issue on which I kn...

Alan Campbell | 507 c84-5 (Link to this contribution) Local authorities, licensing authorities and the police express an interest in using a full range of...

Speaker | 507 c43 (Link to this contribution) Order. While it is always a pleasure to listen to the mellifluous tones of my constituency neighbour...

Lord Deben | 507 c87 (Link to this contribution) Can my hon. Friend imagine what the citizens of Tynemouth might think if they were told that it was ...

James Brokenshire | 507 c116-9 (Link to this contribution) I have previously described this Bill as the Christmas tree Bill to top all Christmas tree Bills, wi...

James Brokenshire | 507 c67-8 (Link to this contribution) We have had an interesting debate on this important subject. The framing of today's debate with the ...

Chris Huhne | 507 c82 (Link to this contribution) I very much agreed with the Minister's point about the importance of cutting alcohol-related violenc...

James Brokenshire | 507 c34 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Subjects

Children

Disclosure of information

Data protection

Databases

Criminal investigation

Crime

Alcoholic drinks

Administration of justice

Anti-social behaviour

Fingerprints