Crime and Security Bill

In that case, I shall not kick the hon. Gentleman too hard this evening. That is only fair, as he may be in his final 12 or so weeks in this House—[Hon. Members: "Oh!"] Well, it is 12 weeks until 3 June and dissolution could happen at any time before then. I can tell the hon. Gentleman, from my 12 years as a Minister in five different Departments, and including four years in No. 10 Downing street, that I know that Ministers have an impact on policy decisions. They listen to amendments and develop policy, and they also test policy that is suggested to them by civil servants. I hope that that will continue for a long time to come. He may feel that his points are not adequately reflected in my reply, but we do wish to make changes to domestic violence protection orders in response to the discussion in Committee. I wish to pay tribute to my hon. Friend for tabling amendments 1 and 2, which reflect concerns expressed to members of the Committee by the NSPCC, which wanted to highlight the important issue of domestic violence protection orders and to consider how children can be impacted by domestic violence in the most serious and unfortunate ways. I want to ensure that these new measures help to protect children from any further harm at the hands of this terrible and very immediate form of violence. In Committee, we had a helpful debate on this issue, and these amendments reflect those discussions. I was able to discuss the amendments with my hon. Friend so that I could accept them, and I am pleased that he has tabled them in the form before us tonight. The purpose of these amendments is to ensure that the welfare of children is taken into consideration before a DVPN or DVPO is made, and that this is included on the face of the Bill. These amendments will require that, before making a DVPN or a DVPO, the police and the court must consider the welfare of any individual under the age of 18 whom the officer deems is relevant to the case. That is in addition to other considerations about the opinions of the victim, perpetrator, and any other associated persons. These amendments will not change the primary focus of the provisions, but will ensure that the children are taken into consideration in the granting of the DVPN or DVPO. The impact of domestic violence on children is relevant and should be a consideration. I hope that I can assuage the concerns of the hon. Gentleman and the right hon. and learned Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Mr. Hogg) by saying that, as with gang injunctions, domestic violence orders are intended as a pilot scheme to start with. We are looking at piloting them in two areas, if the Bill makes progress in the other place and Royal Assent is achieved. In Committee, I made it clear that DVPOs would not be rolled out across the whole country immediately, for the very reasons that the hon. Gentleman mentioned. We want to introduce an effective scheme, and there is a gap in provision that domestic violence protection orders and notices can fill. However, I want to ensure, for the very reasons that the hon. Gentleman set out, that the court facilities are available, and that the police understand the process and have senior officers available to authorise approvals. We also want to ensure that the process makes a difference, that it is compliable—as we think it is—with the human rights of those excluded from their properties, and that it meets the need to protect individuals who are vulnerable to domestic violence. Therefore, whatever else I say today, I hope that the things that the hon. Gentleman has mentioned, as well as the concerns expressed by the right hon. and learned Gentleman, are reflected on as part of the pilot, so that if those circumstances arise, we can measure that and make changes accordingly. The time limit of seven days contemplated by amendments 21 and 22 is simply too short for the consideration of every possible case. Amendment 64 sets the longer deadline of 56 days, but in my view that time limit is unnecessary and undesirable. Let me say to both the right hon. and learned Gentleman and the hon. Gentleman that the purpose of the order—the pilot will test it—is to be put in place as soon as possible after the police officer concerned gets approval from a senior officer for the case to be progressed accordingly.