UK Parliament / Open data

Child Poverty Bill

Debate on bills on Wednesday, 9 December 2009, in the House of Commons.
Child Poverty Bill. Report stage debate. New clause 1, discussed with new clauses 2 and 3, disagreed on division (69 votes to 290). New clause 2 disagreed on division (206 votes to 289). New clause 3 disagreed on division (214 votes to 281). New clause 4 debated and withdrawn. Some amendments made. Third reading debate. Agreed to on question and Bill passed with amendments.[Relevant Document: The Twenty-eighth Report from the Joint Committee on Human Rights of Session 2008-09, Legislative Scrutiny: Child Poverty Bill, HC 1114.]
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
502 c388-465 
Session
2009-10
Department
Department for Work and Pensions
Legislative stage
Third reading and Report stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Child Poverty Bill. Explanatory Notes Bill 10-EN also published.
Thursday, 19 November 2009
Bills
House of Commons
Legislative scrutiny: Child Poverty Bill. Human Rights Joint Select Committee twenty-eighth report with formal minutes and evidence.
Tuesday, 10 November 2009
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Gary Streeter | 502 c447 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the process of having local authorities working with their partners, ...
David Gauke | 502 c446-7 (Link to this contribution) The amendments relate to the duties of local authorities. Under clause 21, which deals with local ch...

Show all contributions (154)
Speaker | 502 c446 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments:
Helen Goodman | 502 c452 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. Tackling child poverty and deprivation is ...
Helen Goodman | 502 c448 (Link to this contribution) Rather a lot of points have been made, and I will have difficulty in responding to all of them. On a...
Sally Keeble | 502 c448 (Link to this contribution) I want to talk briefly to my amendment 32, which says that when local authorities make assessments o...
David Gauke | 502 c447-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Indeed, there is a recognition of some of those points in the Bi...
Speaker | 502 c452 (Link to this contribution) Order. Will hon. Members who are leaving the Chamber please do so as quickly and quietly as possible...
Helen Goodman | 502 c452-3 (Link to this contribution) Our goal is a society where no child's life is scarred by poverty, and where every child is given th...
Helen Goodman | 502 c443 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has persisted in making those points over the course of consideration of the Bill, an...
Sally Keeble | 502 c443 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to be able to speak at this stage, although I had hoped to be able to speak to the next...
Graham Stuart | 502 c444 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to amendment 27, which deals with consulting families. On page 5, the Bill states:""...
Sally Keeble | 502 c443-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that, and perhaps my hon. Friend will spell that out more fully on Third Reading, ...
Graham Stuart | 502 c444-5 (Link to this contribution) It is a little peculiar. I am trying to follow my hon. Friend in being charitable, and I do not want...
Gary Streeter | 502 c444 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend also think it a little peculiar and—I hesitate to say this—perhaps typical of a ...
Evan Harris | 502 c445 (Link to this contribution) With the leave of the House, I will respond to the points made about amendments 35 and 36. I am grat...
Helen Goodman | 502 c445 (Link to this contribution) Does not the hon. Gentleman think that there is a difference between involving a particular child in...
Evan Harris | 502 c445-6 (Link to this contribution) I see the point that the Minister makes. However, the explanatory notes on the duty""to consult chil...
David Gauke | 502 c446 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 29, in page 13, line 12, after 'assessment', insert 'including—
Evan Harris | 502 c437 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Steve Webb | 502 c426 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend, and I am sure that their lordships will want to return to that issue. ...
Evan Harris | 502 c426 (Link to this contribution) The Minister asked me whether I was happy, but then sat down before I could intervene. Does my hon. ...
Steve Webb | 502 c425-6 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. That is why a single measure, either before or after housing costs, does not give the full p...
Helen Goodman | 502 c442-3 (Link to this contribution) Obviously one would not want to consult children without the permission of their parents. That would...
Helen Goodman | 502 c440-2 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to new clause 4 and amendments 21, 27, 28, 35 and 36, which have been grouped because ...
Andrew Selous | 502 c442 (Link to this contribution) I understand what the hon. Lady says, but I remind her that in the Government's own Bills they often...
Evan Harris | 502 c437-9 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief in speaking to this new clause on behalf of the Joint Committee on Human Rights, wh...
Andrew Selous | 502 c439-40 (Link to this contribution) I have looked carefully at new clause 4 and read the relevant comments in the Joint Committee's repo...
Helen Goodman | 502 c420-1 (Link to this contribution) That is not a very difficult trick question, because, as the hon. Gentleman knows, housing benefit r...
Steve Webb | 502 c420 (Link to this contribution) Can I ask the Minister a simple question? If I were to give her a fiver and take a fiver out of her ...
Helen Goodman | 502 c421-2 (Link to this contribution) I have described this afternoon the investment that we are making, which is providing a record impro...
Graham Stuart | 502 c421 (Link to this contribution) The Minister may not have been passionate in her espousal of the importance of housing in tackling p...
Steve Webb | 502 c424-5 (Link to this contribution) It is good to see the House filling up for my views on the after housing costs measure of income. W...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 502 c425 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman address the Minister's example of two families in identical positions, one o...
Andrew Selous | 502 c422 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister not agree that making progress on dealing with the causes of poverty is very likel...
Helen Goodman | 502 c422-4 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman had been a little more patient, he would have heard me make a similar point. ...
Steve Webb | 502 c424 (Link to this contribution) I understand that it has been revealed since the pre-Budget report—it was not apparent in the statem...
Helen Goodman | 502 c424 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that there will be a real-terms cut in the following year as the hon. Gentleman sugge...
Steve Webb | 502 c458 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady raises a point about the perversity of the proposal to reward marriage through the tax...
Graham Stuart | 502 c460 (Link to this contribution) Puerile, was it? The hon. Member for Northavon then launched an assault on the Conservative Governme...
Speaker | 502 c460 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind the hon. Gentleman that we are debating the Bill on Third Reading, which should be a...
Speaker | 502 c459 (Link to this contribution) Order. We are discussing the Third Reading of the Child Poverty Bill and not the other legislation t...
John Howell | 502 c459-60 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is always good to take an intervention from the other half of th...
Graham Stuart | 502 c459 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right to point to the absurd idea that judges might intervene in the complex area ...
Graham Stuart | 502 c460-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I was trying to answer the points made from his Front Be...
Steve Webb | 502 c456-7 (Link to this contribution) In a sense, the hon. Gentleman is clearly right—the Bill prioritises the tackling of child poverty, ...
Andrew Selous | 502 c457 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman and I had a similar exchange on Second Reading, so we are going over slightly old...
Steve Webb | 502 c457 (Link to this contribution) The House might have thought that the hon. Gentleman was making a slightly different point—that it h...
Andrew Selous | 502 c457 (Link to this contribution) I hate to take up too much of Third Reading on economic history, but will the hon. Gentleman cast hi...
Helen Goodman | 502 c453-4 (Link to this contribution) I would like to make a little more progress. The Bill will sustain and increase the momentum toward...
Andrew Selous | 502 c454-6 (Link to this contribution) I have no hesitation in joining the Minister in saying that eradicating child poverty is an ambitiou...
Graham Stuart | 502 c456 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman have any misgivings about the Bill? Obviously, no one wants child poverty to...
Judy Mallaber | 502 c457 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it seems eccentric to think that a Conservative policy could assi...
Steve Webb | 502 c457 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that. Clearly, 18 years is not long enough to avoid doubling...
Helen Goodman | 502 c419 (Link to this contribution) Not yet, if the hon. Gentleman would just be a little patient. As we discussed in Committee, howeve...
Helen Goodman | 502 c419-20 (Link to this contribution) No. Secondly, it is important to note the drawbacks associated with an after-housing-costs measure....
Helen Goodman | 502 c420 (Link to this contribution) I give way to the hon. Member for Northavon.
John Howell | 502 c418 (Link to this contribution) Ah, the hon. Lady is just making faces in response to my comments. If she would like a lecture on th...
Helen Goodman | 502 c418-9 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to new clauses 1, 2 and 3, and amendments 1 to 20, 23, 24, 33, and 34. New clause 1, ...
John Howell | 502 c415-7 (Link to this contribution) It is always a great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr. S...
Graham Stuart | 502 c415 (Link to this contribution) One would hope that in a less febrile battle between false political narratives one would not even n...
Andrew Selous | 502 c415 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to intervene briefly on my hon. Friend to give the Government's figures on HBAI for 2007-...
John Howell | 502 c417-8 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for making that point, but I look at it the other way around. We need to ...
Jamie Reed | 502 c417 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman. I fear that I was not as clear as I might have been. I a...
John Howell | 502 c417 (Link to this contribution) I am not arguing that we should not take income into account. I have not heard anyone in the evidenc...
Jamie Reed | 502 c417 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has made some interesting points, but does he agree that income is the cornerston...
Graham Stuart | 502 c415 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to give way to my hon. Friend, who is a master of such figures and will share them with t...
Sally Keeble | 502 c414 (Link to this contribution) Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that all the studies that are based on Department for Work and Pe...
Graham Stuart | 502 c414 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is quite right. I shall try to answer him as straightforwardly as I can. I person...
Sally Keeble | 502 c414 (Link to this contribution) I would be grateful if the hon. Gentleman would quote the figures from Department for Work and Pensi...
Graham Stuart | 502 c414 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that intervention. Single parent households are twice as likely t...
John Mason | 502 c413 (Link to this contribution) I noticed the hon. Gentleman's phrase about hard work being rewarded, and there is a problem in that...
Jamie Reed | 502 c414 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a very interesting case, as usual, which is being enjoyed by Members of...
Graham Stuart | 502 c413-4 (Link to this contribution) That is a fair question and it would need to be considered. We do not want to price people—particula...
Graham Stuart | 502 c414 (Link to this contribution) I hope that it is not because of blind prejudice that the hon. Lady has not looked at the basic figu...
Steve Webb | 502 c412 (Link to this contribution) It is always a shame to interrupt the hon. Gentleman in full flow. May I encourage him to be a bit w...
Graham Stuart | 502 c410-2 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure both to follow the hon. Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson) and to participate in...
David Simpson | 502 c410 (Link to this contribution) I wish that I had a crystal ball. It is very difficult to identify the root of the problem and find ...
Graham Stuart | 502 c409 (Link to this contribution) How is a balance to be struck between giving families who are living in poverty a sense of empowerme...
David Simpson | 502 c409 (Link to this contribution) I agree wholeheartedly with my hon. Friend. There is no doubt that child poverty is a generational p...
Gregory Campbell | 502 c409 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has talked of the Government's commitment to eradicating child poverty within a gener...
David Simpson | 502 c408-9 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak briefly to this group of amendments. I confess that I have not been involved in the ...
Evan Harris | 502 c408 (Link to this contribution) That might be the way forward. We argue that the Bill as a whole, because of the targets set in it, ...
John Mason | 502 c408 (Link to this contribution) I am listening carefully to what the hon. Gentleman is saying and I believe I understand his point. ...
Graham Stuart | 502 c412 (Link to this contribution) I partially agree with what the hon. Gentleman says, and I certainly welcome the sentiment behind it...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 502 c399 (Link to this contribution) I was trying to get away from this debate. The quotation that the hon. Gentleman cited from Mike Bre...
Andrew Selous | 502 c399 (Link to this contribution) I mentioned one or two routes in response to my hon. Friend the Member for South-West Devon (Mr. Str...
Gary Streeter | 502 c398 (Link to this contribution) I am attracted by my hon. Friend's approach, but does he think that it would be possible to reach ag...
Andrew Selous | 502 c398-9 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend that it would not be easy, and my attempt to do so in Committee did meet...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 502 c395-7 (Link to this contribution) Of course it is. One thing Seebohm Rowntree did was list the issues that the Government are trying ...
Andrew Selous | 502 c397-8 (Link to this contribution) As always, it is a great pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field) and, in...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 502 c395 (Link to this contribution) I thought we were taking all the clauses together, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
Speaker | 502 c395 (Link to this contribution) Yes we are, but a degree of precision is essential.
Andrew Selous | 502 c399 (Link to this contribution) I agree. There is no great difference between the right hon. Gentleman and myself. I think that his ...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 502 c399 (Link to this contribution) Is addiction not to some extent a presenting problem? Are we saying that if we abolished addiction, ...
Steve Webb | 502 c388 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Speaker | 502 c388 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Steve Webb | 502 c390-1 (Link to this contribution) A wry smile crosses our faces when it is announced that this Bill is the main business of the day, b...
Lembit Opik | 502 c391 (Link to this contribution) I strongly support the new clause and my hon. Friend's arguments for it. Does he agree that the prop...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 502 c394-5 (Link to this contribution) In speaking to this group of amendments, I hope to achieve two objectives. The first is to praise th...
Speaker | 502 c395 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am reluctant to interrupt the right hon. Gentleman, but I am not quite sure how far he is g...
Gary Streeter | 502 c404 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is on to a very good point. This is a question of what the Government focus on. This ...
Sally Keeble | 502 c405 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that, in about 1980, about one in three children were growing up in p...
Gary Streeter | 502 c404 (Link to this contribution) I agree, or I think I do. I certainly want us to address financial child poverty—of course I do. It ...
Graham Stuart | 502 c404 (Link to this contribution) There is the possibility of distortion, not only in the child poverty agenda as we get nearer to the...
Steve Webb | 502 c407 (Link to this contribution) The dilemma is that for the vast bulk of the nation's children, living standards can be assessed usi...
Evan Harris | 502 c407-8 (Link to this contribution) I do not know the answer to that question, but we recognise that the number of additional children t...
Gary Streeter | 502 c405 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I do not really trust those statistics terribly much. From my own experience, looki...
Evan Harris | 502 c405-7 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to amendments 33 and 34, tabled on behalf of the Joint Committee on Human Rights by ...
Gary Streeter | 502 c404 (Link to this contribution) That would be a very valuable exercise.
Jamie Reed | 502 c404 (Link to this contribution) As ever, the hon. Gentleman is making a thoughtful and valuable contribution, but does he agree that...
Graham Stuart | 502 c401 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way; he is a charitable person and does not necessarily s...
Andrew Selous | 502 c401 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend made that type of forceful comment extremely well in Committee. Some believe that tha...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 502 c401 (Link to this contribution) It is easy enough for us to attack the Government for not achieving the objective, but will the hon....
Andrew Selous | 502 c401-2 (Link to this contribution) I do indeed pay tribute to the Government's commitment. I do not think that that is disputed. If the...
Gary Streeter | 502 c402-3 (Link to this contribution) I will be mercifully brief. I want to raise a number of points in support of new clauses 3 and 2. A...
John Mason | 502 c403 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman lists a number of issues. We are all committed in this House to getting to the ca...
Gary Streeter | 502 c403-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman anticipates me. I embrace that concept, except to say that I am not sure how prac...
Graham Stuart | 502 c400 (Link to this contribution) Our party is often critical of targets because of how they distort behaviour to meet often statistic...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 502 c462 (Link to this contribution) The Government talk a good game about the involvement of local government in the eradication of pove...
Speaker | 502 c462 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I remind the hon. Member that there will no doubt be an opportunity to discuss the pre-Bu...
Graham Stuart | 502 c462 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is pre-Budget reports and future Budgets that will need to put i...
Peter Bone | 502 c461 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making his point powerfully, as usual, but I have been sitting here listening to t...
Graham Stuart | 502 c461-2 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an interesting point. He was not here during the earlier debate, when I reminde...
Graham Stuart | 502 c461 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful also to my hon. Friend, who intervenes conveniently.
Speaker | 502 c461 (Link to this contribution) Order. Could I remind the hon. Member that we are not repeating a Second Reading debate? I have give...
Graham Stuart | 502 c461 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, Madam Deputy Speaker.
John Mason | 502 c465 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. It makes a complete joke of the word. There are other concerns. The Committee discussed...
Graham Stuart | 502 c462-3 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. In the light of what happened with child poverty un...
Speaker | 502 c463 (Link to this contribution) Order. I understand that the hon. Gentleman is again responding to an intervention, but may I remind...
Graham Stuart | 502 c463 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Of course, it will be under the auspices of this Bill that any futu...
Peter Bone | 502 c463 (Link to this contribution) I have been listening to the debate with growing concern—I was here when my hon. Friend made his ori...
Graham Stuart | 502 c463-4 (Link to this contribution) If, like me, my hon. Friend does not like declaratory legislation, and does not think that targets s...
John Mason | 502 c464-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr. Stuart) for leaving me approximately four m...
John Barrett | 502 c465 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that that is the major failing of the Bill? It has redefined the word ...
Speaker | 502 c462 (Link to this contribution) Order. I hope that the hon. Gentleman is not going to be tempted to stray into a very different deba...
Graham Stuart | 502 c462 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely mindful of your strictures, Madam Deputy Speaker, so I will return to the strategies....
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 502 c462 (Link to this contribution) Can the hon. Gentleman assure the House that if we do have a Conservative Government in a matter of ...
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown | 502 c412 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that in meeting the challenge of child poverty, it does not matter to ...
Steve Webb | 502 c391-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that very important point. The Bill measures income, incl...
Graham Stuart | 502 c460 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to take part in the debate on Third Reading. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Hen...
Graham Stuart | 502 c412-3 (Link to this contribution) I would always defer to the hon. Gentleman on matters of statistics, but when the official Governmen...
Speaker | 502 c437 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
John Howell | 502 c458 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether it is usual to have so many Back Benchers wanting to take part in a Third Read...
Steve Webb | 502 c456 (Link to this contribution) It was interesting that when the Minister began her speech she said that she thought that it was wro...
Andrew Selous | 502 c400-1 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend served with great distinction in Committee, and it is excellent to see him in the Cha...
Subjects
Children
Disadvantaged
Housing
Local government
Low incomes
Poverty
Standards
Standard of living
Legislation
Child Poverty Bill 2008-09 to 2009-10
Contains statistics
Yes
Link
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