Finance Bill. Ways and means resolution. Resolved that provision may be made in the Finance Bill for disapplying section 393A(2A) of the Income and Corporation Taxes Act 1988. Report stage first day. New clause 8, discussed with New clause 5, debated and agreed to. New clause 1 debated and disagreed to on division (268 votes to 311). New clause 3, discussed with New clauses 4 and 6, debated and disagreed to on division (146 votes to 365).
Finance Bill
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
495 c843-939
Session
2008-09
Legislative stage
Report stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Finance Bill. As amended in the Committee (of the Whole House) and in Public Bill Committee. In two volumes.
Thursday, 25 June 2009
Bills
House of Commons
Thursday, 25 June 2009
Bills
House of Commons
Show all related items (7)
Proceeding contributions
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c864 (Link to this contribution)
I agree entirely. We benefited by the 2p rate reduction—I say "we" because those of us in this Chamb...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c863 (Link to this contribution)
I will very happily stand corrected and I hope that my hon. Friend catches your eye later, Mr. Deput...
Show all contributions (257)
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c863-4 (Link to this contribution)
They certainly have. I repeat that I hope my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent, Central (Mar...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c864 (Link to this contribution)
Was not one of the strange features of the Chancellor's compensation package that, although it had t...
Speaker | 495 c861 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c862-3 (Link to this contribution)
I have been in the House for 30 years, and have moved many motions on new clauses and many amendment...
Mark Fisher | 495 c863 (Link to this contribution)
Is my right hon. Friend certain about what he is saying about pensioners? I think there is a popular...
Lord Deben | 495 c866 (Link to this contribution)
Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that these relatively small amounts of money are in fact large ...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c866-7 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure that those sentiments are reflected on both sides of the House. The disappointment that I ...
Stephen Timms | 495 c866 (Link to this contribution)
Actually, we had a call from the IFS to ask us where the 1.3 million figure came from, so this may b...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c866 (Link to this contribution)
Well, I am sure, because it comes from the IFS. When I was broadcasting with representatives of the ...
Stephen Timms | 495 c866 (Link to this contribution)
I am listening with great interest to my right hon. Friend, and I wish to take issue later with some...
William Cash | 495 c865-6 (Link to this contribution)
I thoroughly endorse what the right hon. Gentleman says, for all the reasons that he has given. He m...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c866 (Link to this contribution)
I do not dispute that point, and the hon. Gentleman may be able to make his case later in the debate...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c864-5 (Link to this contribution)
My earnings are those of a Member of Parliament. To be fair to the Government, I understood that the...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c865 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is perfectly right, and the figures, if they are to be trusted, show that 2 per c...
John Redwood | 495 c856 (Link to this contribution)
How do Ministers satisfy themselves about the tax affairs of the banks that they own on behalf of th...
Stephen Timms | 495 c856 (Link to this contribution)
That is a matter for HMRC, but I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman has seen the code of conduct ...
Rob Marris | 495 c856 (Link to this contribution)
I have much sympathy with new clause 5. However, as constituency Members, many of us are faced with ...
Stephen Timms | 495 c856-7 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is right. That is precisely the danger to which new clause 5 could give rise, with th...
Rob Marris | 495 c857 (Link to this contribution)
My understanding is that when HMRC is involved in anything like that, as it is on occasion, it does ...
Stephen Timms | 495 c857 (Link to this contribution)
I share my hon. Friend's concern about what we might find ourselves getting into. On the other hand,...
Stephen Timms | 495 c857-8 (Link to this contribution)
I beg the hon. Gentleman's pardon—I have made that mistake before.
When we consulted on the idea th...
Stephen Timms | 495 c855 (Link to this contribution)
The problem is that new clause 5 would help the promoters of avoidance. It would give them advice an...
Michael Meacher | 495 c858 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend mentions the code of conduct that has just been published. Does he really belie...
Stephen Timms | 495 c859 (Link to this contribution)
I must say that, as so often, I am very impressed by my hon. Friend's expertise and memory. Sadly, I...
John Redwood | 495 c859 (Link to this contribution)
Does the Minister think that big banks such as RBS and Lloyds HBOS in the public sector should be pa...
Stephen Timms | 495 c858-9 (Link to this contribution)
We had a discussion in Committee about principles-based legislation, and we have some examples of it...
Rob Marris | 495 c859 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Minister say a little about the Ramsay case—I think it is the Ramsay case—to which I have a...
Stephen Timms | 495 c860-1 (Link to this contribution)
No, I am not saying that. The hon. Gentleman will know from the context of discussions about the ass...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c861 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Stephen Timms | 495 c860 (Link to this contribution)
As soon as they are making a profit, they should undoubtedly pay corporation tax.
Peter Bone | 495 c860 (Link to this contribution)
Is the Minister therefore saying that all losses incurred—I emphasise all losses—will not be carried...
Stephen Timms | 495 c858 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend asks whether I think that a voluntary code of conduct for banks will be effecti...
John Pugh | 495 c858 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister has stated a preference for targeted measures, and I understand the strategy that is be...
Rob Marris | 495 c850 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful—it is Report stage. I have been racking my brains, going back a long time. I think my ...
Michael Meacher | 495 c850 (Link to this contribution)
This is extraordinary. I always give way to my hon. Friend.
John Pugh | 495 c850 (Link to this contribution)
I shall speak to amendments 34 and 35 and broadly in support of new clause 5. I do not doubt the Min...
Michael Meacher | 495 c850 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend has the advantage over me because I have not looked at that, but I find it difficult ...
Lord Deben | 495 c849 (Link to this contribution)
Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that one of the prices of liberty is eternal vigilance, and tha...
Rob Marris | 495 c849 (Link to this contribution)
Will my right hon. Friend give way?
Michael Meacher | 495 c849 (Link to this contribution)
I do not often disagree with the right hon. Gentleman, but here I take a rather different line. Of c...
Mark Field | 495 c850 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman not also consider that the parentage is the other way around—that complex ta...
John Pugh | 495 c850-1 (Link to this contribution)
That is a fair point, but I was going to say that the Treasury at one stage, in the halcyon days of ...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c851 (Link to this contribution)
Before the hon. Gentleman moves on, may I just check something? There are concerns that, if we have ...
Mark Hoban | 495 c854-5 (Link to this contribution)
Indeed, balance is a difficult issue to get to the bottom of. No one in this House likes to see retr...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c853-4 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman's argument is absolutely right. However, advisers and promoters are coming up wit...
Mark Hoban | 495 c853 (Link to this contribution)
If I got dragged down that line of argument, Mr. Speaker, I would be trespassing into a new clause t...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c853 (Link to this contribution)
I know that the hon. Gentleman has only just begun, but before he finishes I hope that he will comme...
Mark Hoban | 495 c852 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Mr. Field) made an important point: ...
John Pugh | 495 c851-2 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is a man of most moderate temperament, and I should not wish to malign him.
In t...
Brian Binley | 495 c851 (Link to this contribution)
"Incandescent" is a slightly heavy word in that respect!
John Pugh | 495 c851 (Link to this contribution)
We need a belt and braces rule—a specific provision that is assisted by a general rule. Again, the G...
Stephen Timms | 495 c855 (Link to this contribution)
We have had an interesting discussion about new clause 5, on pre-commencement notification. The hon....
Stewart Hosie | 495 c855 (Link to this contribution)
I understand the arguments that the Financial Secretary and the hon. Member for Fareham (Mr. Hoban) ...
Speaker | 495 c844 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Rob Marris | 495 c846 (Link to this contribution)
Will my right hon. Friend give way?
Stephen Timms | 495 c846 (Link to this contribution)
I gladly give way to my hon. Friend, whom we greatly missed in Committee.
Rob Marris | 495 c846 (Link to this contribution)
Actually, I do not wish to press my point —I have reread the provision and I now understand it.
Stephen Timms | 495 c846 (Link to this contribution)
I hope that my hon. Friend will not feel discouraged from intervening later in the debate.
The amen...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c846-7 (Link to this contribution)
I rise to speak in favour of new clause 5. I originally had no intention of tabling such a new claus...
Speaker | 495 c847 (Link to this contribution)
Order. I gently say to the hon. Gentleman that the erudition of that intervention was equalled only ...
Colin Breed | 495 c847 (Link to this contribution)
I fully agree with the thrust of the hon. Gentleman's argument, but he might be aware that the Selec...
Michael Meacher | 495 c848 (Link to this contribution)
The question is what particular transparent and open system the hon. Gentleman would recommend, but ...
Mark Field | 495 c848 (Link to this contribution)
I do not disagree that it is perfectly within the rights of any Government to have a rigorous anti-a...
Michael Meacher | 495 c848 (Link to this contribution)
I want to make one very brief central point, and it relates to what the hon. Member for Dundee, East...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c847-8 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Member for South-East Cornwall (Mr. Breed) makes an important point about the complexity of...
Lord Deben | 495 c849 (Link to this contribution)
Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Michael Meacher | 495 c849 (Link to this contribution)
I am amazed how popular my speech has become. I thought it would be two minutes, but I always give w...
John Pugh | 495 c849 (Link to this contribution)
Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is a great pity that new clause 2 has not been selected,...
Michael Meacher | 495 c849 (Link to this contribution)
I was coming to that. The hon. Gentleman and I have had some conversations on this subject, and I en...
Mark Hoban | 495 c872-3 (Link to this contribution)
The challenge is that the Government already recognise that there is a problem. I noticed earlier th...
Mark Fisher | 495 c872 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman share my view that one of the things making it impossible for the Government...
Mark Fisher | 495 c873-5 (Link to this contribution)
It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Fareham (Mr. Hoban). I, too, want to concentrate my r...
Mark Hoban | 495 c872 (Link to this contribution)
I do not need to move on quickly, because the onus lies with the Government, not the Opposition, to ...
Mark Hoban | 495 c872 (Link to this contribution)
The issue is not about finding the money to pay for the compensation, but about finding a way to com...
David Drew | 495 c872 (Link to this contribution)
May I help the hon. Gentleman—and, indeed, the Government? One of the ways in which we could bridge ...
Mark Hoban | 495 c870-2 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. Part of the challenge was for the Government to justify...
Stephen Timms | 495 c872 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is giving us an interesting historical discourse on the events of the past couple...
Mark Hoban | 495 c872 (Link to this contribution)
That obligation rests with the Minister; he is in government, not the Opposition. We look to him to ...
Rob Marris | 495 c870 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman share the puzzlement of many of us, whereby one reason given for the aboliti...
Mark Hoban | 495 c870 (Link to this contribution)
Many people ask themselves that question. We have provided significant taxpayer subsidies to those b...
John Redwood | 495 c870 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend think that one of the things that people find very difficult to understand is ho...
Mark Hoban | 495 c869-70 (Link to this contribution)
The right hon. Gentleman has not only tabled the new clause, but has managed to bring the weather on...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c869 (Link to this contribution)
Did the hon. Gentleman notice that as Birkenhead was mentioned, the gods showed their displeasure at...
Mark Hoban | 495 c869 (Link to this contribution)
I am not sure that I or the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field) know, or that the Treasury ...
Rob Marris | 495 c869 (Link to this contribution)
As a matter of interest, on amendment 40 to which the hon. Gentleman has just been speaking, can he ...
Mark Hoban | 495 c868-9 (Link to this contribution)
It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field), who spoke in his typica...
David Drew | 495 c867 (Link to this contribution)
I want to hear those redistributive noises from those on the Front Bench, and I am looking forward t...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c867-8 (Link to this contribution)
I have been bending over backwards not to suggest this is a very easy thing that fits into nice litt...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c879-81 (Link to this contribution)
That is an interesting point. I will not be tempted too far off the beaten track, Mr. Deputy Speaker...
Lord Deben | 495 c879 (Link to this contribution)
Would there not also be support for that view if one took into account the parallel occasion, when t...
Peter Bone | 495 c881 (Link to this contribution)
Is there not a problem with the new proposal, in that it would not reimburse the people who lost out...
Sally Keeble | 495 c881-3 (Link to this contribution)
I strongly support new clause 1 because it deals with an issue about which I have been concerned. I ...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c878 (Link to this contribution)
I do not doubt that. There are serious questions about the Prime Minister's judgment, but none about...
Bob Spink | 495 c878 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to hon. Gentleman, who is making a remarkably balanced speech and making a lot of sens...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c878 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman as well. I am building up an unlikely coalition behind amendment...
Peter Bone | 495 c878-9 (Link to this contribution)
I am listening to the hon. Gentleman with great interest. I agree with a lot of what he is saying, b...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c879 (Link to this contribution)
My view, for what it is worth, is that the Treasury and Treasury Ministers knew perfectly well and w...
Edward Timpson | 495 c877 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman recall that at the time, the effect of abolishing the 10p tax rate on some o...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c876-7 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that intervention for two reasons. First, amendment 37 does precisely what the hon...
Lynne Jones | 495 c876 (Link to this contribution)
May I point out that some of us were less ecstatic than the hon. Gentleman suggests? I well remember...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c875-6 (Link to this contribution)
I want to limit my comments to new clause 1, which the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field) ...
Richard Bacon | 495 c878 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there was a keen awareness on the part of not only our constituen...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c877-8 (Link to this contribution)
That is true. Of course, the measure was not implemented straight away—it was a ticking time bomb, w...
Karen Buck | 495 c875 (Link to this contribution)
Pursuant to the remark by my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Lynne Jones), one thi...
Mark Fisher | 495 c875 (Link to this contribution)
I entirely agree with my hon. Friend, and of course I would want to make the exception, which was im...
Lynne Jones | 495 c875 (Link to this contribution)
I think it is unfair to say that the Government have not talked about poverty, but by and large it h...
Mark Fisher | 495 c875 (Link to this contribution)
I take my hon. Friend's admonition. Of course Ministers have discussed poverty, but when the story o...
David Gauke | 495 c902-3 (Link to this contribution)
We have not made a decision about salary, and the hon. Gentleman would not expect us to have done so...
Rob Marris | 495 c904 (Link to this contribution)
Can the hon. Gentleman say a little more about the philosophical underpinnings of tax simplification...
David Gauke | 495 c904 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes a good point in the context of the 10p rate. I fear that there are times wh...
Brian Binley | 495 c904 (Link to this contribution)
I am listening to my hon. Friend's comments with great interest and welcome the proposal. Does he re...
David Gauke | 495 c904 (Link to this contribution)
Indeed. My hon. Friend is a strong and eloquent advocate of the interests of small businesses and I ...
Rob Marris | 495 c904 (Link to this contribution)
Drawing together his response to my intervention and to that from the hon. Member for Northampton, S...
David Gauke | 495 c904-6 (Link to this contribution)
We look forward to hearing the arguments made in favour of that amendment by the hon. Member for Tau...
David Gauke | 495 c906 (Link to this contribution)
I was going to conclude, but I will certainly give way.
Stephen Timms | 495 c906 (Link to this contribution)
Before the hon. Gentleman concludes, will he acknowledge the point that I made in our debate, which ...
Rob Marris | 495 c906-7 (Link to this contribution)
I want to make a few brief remarks about philosophy, to put it at its most general. Most of my first...
David Gauke | 495 c906 (Link to this contribution)
I do acknowledge that there is an issue, and extending the treatment to EEA properties clearly makes...
Rob Marris | 495 c907-8 (Link to this contribution)
Indeed not; and the age of chutzpah is upon us.
I was discussing two of the new clauses in this gro...
Brian Binley | 495 c908 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is a clever man, and I have admired his comments again and again. However, is he ...
Rob Marris | 495 c907 (Link to this contribution)
I presume that the hon. Gentleman is talking about the Liberal Democrat "Focus" newsletter published...
David Gauke | 495 c907 (Link to this contribution)
Following the contribution from the hon. Member for Taunton (Mr. Browne), will the hon. Member for W...
Rob Marris | 495 c908 (Link to this contribution)
I am simply saying to the hon. Gentleman that the issues are difficult and that I am not going to st...
Rob Marris | 495 c908 (Link to this contribution)
What I am saying is that the issues are philosophically and politically much more difficult than is ...
Brian Binley | 495 c908 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman stop being a lawyer and tell me whether he believes in tax simplification?
Sally Keeble | 495 c883 (Link to this contribution)
No, which is exactly why I have explained my position on this amending provision and pressed Treasur...
Peter Bone | 495 c883 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Lady is making a sensible speech. I notice that her name appears on the amendment paper as ...
Sally Keeble | 495 c884 (Link to this contribution)
I think we can hear about that from Ministers.
Roger Godsiff | 495 c883 (Link to this contribution)
I have listened to what my hon. Friend has said. Will she explain what she thinks would happen if th...
Sally Keeble | 495 c884 (Link to this contribution)
I am very clear that if we start delaying the arrangements for tax and other payments, the consequen...
Roger Godsiff | 495 c884 (Link to this contribution)
I was going to ask them later.
Sally Keeble | 495 c884 (Link to this contribution)
I will be completely honest and send her a copy of what I have said, so she can see for herself. If ...
William Cash | 495 c885-6 (Link to this contribution)
It is said, "For whom the bell tolls"—well, there is no question but that the bell tolls for new Lab...
Baroness Hoey | 495 c886 (Link to this contribution)
I support new clause 1, which bears my name. If my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Mr. ...
George Howarth | 495 c887 (Link to this contribution)
I accept that the position could possibly be put right within 24 hours, but will my hon. Friend acce...
Baroness Hoey | 495 c886-7 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is right. The problem is that whenever we say that we want something to be change...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c886 (Link to this contribution)
There was such a situation in the United Kingdom earlier this year, when a budget was not passed in ...
David Drew | 495 c889 (Link to this contribution)
I always think it is better to win the debate through argument than through other ways—for example, ...
Diane Abbott | 495 c888 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that there has been some talk in the past 48 hours that if this new clause...
David Drew | 495 c888 (Link to this contribution)
I can say little more than my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field) or my hon. Fri...
Baroness Hoey | 495 c887 (Link to this contribution)
I am not an economist, and I am sometimes quite glad that I am not, but I see things in a common-sen...
Sally Keeble | 495 c891 (Link to this contribution)
Will my right hon. Friend not only look at the practical consequences to do with the money these wom...
Stephen Timms | 495 c889-90 (Link to this contribution)
We have had a very good debate. At Budget 2007, the Government announced the abolition of the 10p ra...
Stephen Timms | 495 c890-1 (Link to this contribution)
I want to make a little progress for now, and say the following to my right hon. Friend the Member f...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c892-3 (Link to this contribution)
There is clearly something wrong with our procedures when Members who wish to reform a Budget constr...
Stephen Timms | 495 c891-2 (Link to this contribution)
Actually, it is true, and we have taken strenuous measures. I think my hon. Friend is suggesting som...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c893 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that intervention, because it allows me to point out that the Minister keeps sayin...
Lynne Jones | 495 c893 (Link to this contribution)
I am trying to decide how to vote should my right hon. Friend press this matter to a Division. The o...
Roger Godsiff | 495 c891 (Link to this contribution)
Will the Financial Secretary briefly explain what would happen if new clause 1 were carried this eve...
Stephen Timms | 495 c891 (Link to this contribution)
Absolutely—and that should certainly not have been said to anybody. There is a sense of grievance, a...
David Leslie Taylor | 495 c891 (Link to this contribution)
I moved a not dissimilar measure in the equivalent debate in July 2008, and I offered a formula to t...
Stephen Timms | 495 c891 (Link to this contribution)
Well, the power to collect income tax ahead of Royal Assent is founded on the Provisional Collection...
George Howarth | 495 c893 (Link to this contribution)
I suspect that my right hon. Friend is correct about the proposal that my hon. Friend the Member for...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c893-4 (Link to this contribution)
As I have been explaining, I cannot do that. The House of Commons has this absurd procedure whereby ...
David Gauke | 495 c900-2 (Link to this contribution)
I think I know where the hon. Gentleman got that statistic from, and I am not sure that it is actual...
David Leslie Taylor | 495 c900 (Link to this contribution)
Is there not a flaw—perhaps two—in what the hon. Gentleman is saying? Competitive taxation is one of...
David Gauke | 495 c900 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I shall turn in detail to the office of tax simplification, but...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c899-900 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman share the concern held by me and the right hon. Member for Witney (Mr. Camer...
David Gauke | 495 c899 (Link to this contribution)
New clauses 3 and 6 specifically address and seek to improve the competitiveness and attractiveness ...
Speaker | 495 c899 (Link to this contribution)
Order. We have important business to continue with. Will Members please leave the Chamber quickly an...
David Gauke | 495 c899 (Link to this contribution)
We now turn to another crucial subject, although I do not know whether it will hold Members in the C...
Speaker | 495 c898 (Link to this contribution)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
David Gauke | 495 c898 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Jeremy Browne | 495 c902 (Link to this contribution)
I hope that I have not missed this in the hon. Gentleman's speech, but will he say what salary he wo...
Speaker | 495 c910 (Link to this contribution)
Order. Will the hon. Gentleman get back to discussing the new clause?
Jeremy Browne | 495 c910 (Link to this contribution)
My first concern is that I take seriously the speeches of the right hon. Member for Witney (Mr. Came...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c910 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that guidance, Madam Deputy Speaker, but this is directly central to the new claus...
Speaker | 495 c910 (Link to this contribution)
Order. The hon. Gentleman's remarks may well be correct, but perhaps we will restrict ourselves a li...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c911 (Link to this contribution)
I think that I have made my point.
I am reluctant, in this time of difficult financial circumstance...
Theresa Villiers | 495 c911 (Link to this contribution)
Surely it is bogus to accuse the Conservative party of undermining the support we have always expres...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c911-2 (Link to this contribution)
I think it is legitimate to explore the motives behind the new clause. My fear—I may be wrong—is tha...
Colin Breed | 495 c912 (Link to this contribution)
Is not the crux of the matter not simplification but fairness? In an attempt to try to make things f...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c912-3 (Link to this contribution)
That is a particularly good point. My hon. Friend may have ruled himself out of the lavishly paid jo...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 495 c913-4 (Link to this contribution)
I shall not detain the House long, but I wish strongly to support the new clauses tabled by my hon. ...
David Gauke | 495 c908 (Link to this contribution)
May I help the hon. Gentleman?
Rob Marris | 495 c909 (Link to this contribution)
Let us be clear. Let us leave aside Liberal Democrat amendment 36 for the moment; we will get on to ...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c909 (Link to this contribution)
It is difficult to follow that devastating dismantling of not only the new clauses put forward by th...
Rob Marris | 495 c908 (Link to this contribution)
I don't need any help!
David Gauke | 495 c908-9 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps the hon. Gentleman should accept some. An amendment in the group has been tabled by the Libe...
Brian Binley | 495 c909 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Jeremy Browne | 495 c910 (Link to this contribution)
Let me talk for a moment about the difficulty that the hon. Gentleman will face when he makes his po...
Rob Marris | 495 c909 (Link to this contribution)
I gently point out to the hon. Gentleman the perils involved in some of these issues. Having carried...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c909 (Link to this contribution)
I defer to the hon. Gentleman's expertise about Canadian politics, although I observe a constant the...
Brian Binley | 495 c910 (Link to this contribution)
Does the hon. Gentleman not recognise that in the simplification of any code, the emphasis changes? ...
Speaker | 495 c928 (Link to this contribution)
Order. Some of the breweries may not be where they should be, according to the hon. Gentleman, but I...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c928-9 (Link to this contribution)
Sadly, Madam Deputy Speaker, that is the sum total of breweries in my constituency, but I am doing m...
Greg Hands | 495 c929 (Link to this contribution)
Before the hon. Gentleman concludes, will he explain what amendment 38 means? It seems to set up som...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c929 (Link to this contribution)
I will, but I am trying to put in place a simple measure to do precisely what the hon. Gentleman say...
Stewart Hosie | 495 c929 (Link to this contribution)
On a technical point, the first part is correct—""shall be reduced by 2 per cent. for the tax year 2...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c930 (Link to this contribution)
I was about to conclude to give others an opportunity, but I give way to the hon. Gentleman.
Jeremy Browne | 495 c930 (Link to this contribution)
I am entirely sure that I accept the premise of the hon. Gentleman's intervention. Perhaps I did not...
David Leslie Taylor | 495 c930 (Link to this contribution)
I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman had not yet concluded. It was all too easy in the past to be cr...
Peter Bone | 495 c926 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is, as usual, making a powerful speech. I just wanted to make the point that this...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c926 (Link to this contribution)
That is true, and it is noticeable in rural communities that very few villages have more than one pu...
David Leslie Taylor | 495 c926 (Link to this contribution)
If the hon. Gentleman is building the hypothesis that pubs are a good thing but 2,000 a year are clo...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c926 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. My constituency contains a large town—Taunton—and a second to...
Lembit Opik | 495 c926 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that in many small communities where shops and post offices have closed, t...
Simon Hughes | 495 c927-8 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend has waxed lyrical about rural pubs, and I join him in that, but some of us have very ...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c927 (Link to this contribution)
I completely accept that point. That is why I hope that hon. Members from all parties will support a...
Julia Goldsworthy | 495 c927 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend is being generous in giving way. Although the hon. Member for North-West Leicestershi...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c927 (Link to this contribution)
I agree with that point. Actually, I agree with all three of the points that the hon. Gentleman made...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c928 (Link to this contribution)
I completely accept my hon. Friend's point. Let me illustrate my acceptance of his point with an exa...
Speaker | 495 c924 (Link to this contribution)
Order. I think we have got the gist of what the hon. Gentleman is trying to say.
Jeremy Browne | 495 c924 (Link to this contribution)
I think I understood the point being made by my hon. Friend. It would have helped me a bit if he had...
Julia Goldsworthy | 495 c924 (Link to this contribution)
Does my hon. Friend agree that the beer duty increases will have an impact not only on rural communi...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c924 (Link to this contribution)
I strongly agree with that observation; I was going to talk about breweries later in my speech, but ...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c925-6 (Link to this contribution)
That is also a very good point. The Prince of Wales has campaigned on the notion that "The Pub is th...
Dan Rogerson | 495 c925 (Link to this contribution)
My hon. Friend has consistently pushed the case for defending pubs on the duty issue—last year and t...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c925 (Link to this contribution)
Well, before I do that, I shall give way to my hon. Friend.
Jeremy Browne | 495 c925 (Link to this contribution)
That is a very valid point, which also illustrates people's wider concerns about losing pubs. Althou...
Lord Foster of Bath | 495 c925 (Link to this contribution)
Before my hon. Friend moves on, he should continue to list the benefits of pubs in our communities, ...
Brian Binley | 495 c915 (Link to this contribution)
Of course, it is the Financial Secretary's job to paint everything in the garden as rosy, but does h...
Stephen Timms | 495 c915-6 (Link to this contribution)
The World Bank's assessment shows that we are the best in the G7 for ease of paying taxes—that is th...
Stephen Timms | 495 c914-5 (Link to this contribution)
I think we can all agree that tax competitiveness is important, and it is a good thing that the UK c...
Lembit Opik | 495 c924 (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising this issue, which is of great concern to many Members. D...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c924 (Link to this contribution)
Perhaps we should do that at nine o'clock every evening, Madam Deputy Speaker.
I shall focus on bee...
Speaker | 495 c924 (Link to this contribution)
I think that is an excellent idea, Mr. Browne.
Jeremy Browne | 495 c923 (Link to this contribution)
Well, let us just talk about beer then, shall we Madam Deputy Speaker?
Stewart Hosie | 495 c923 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure many Members are concerned about all sorts of unfairness in the duty regime, but the bit o...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c935 (Link to this contribution)
I question the Minister's statement that beer is not a price-sensitive commodity.
Jeremy Browne | 495 c936 (Link to this contribution)
Let me start again. I question the so-called expert's statement that beer is not price-sensitive, or...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c935 (Link to this contribution)
May I just clarify that that was not my statement? It was a quotation from one of the expert witness...
Lord Foster of Bath | 495 c932 (Link to this contribution)
Just before the hon. Gentleman moves on, I note that he said that the hon. Member for Luton, North (...
Greg Hands | 495 c932 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes a good point, although we must recognise that there are difficulties concer...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c932 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Speaker | 495 c930 (Link to this contribution)
Order. The hon. Gentleman will relate that, I am sure, to the amendment that we are discussing.
Greg Hands | 495 c930-1 (Link to this contribution)
It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Taunton (Mr. Browne). I, too, will be celebrat...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c930 (Link to this contribution)
Indeed, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will be celebrating Proud of Pubs week. I thought that would be a su...
Greg Hands | 495 c931 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes a very strong point. In fact, the amount of revenue has undershot Red Book ...
Lembit Opik | 495 c931 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman may be coming to this point, but does he agree that, given the level of pub closu...
Greg Hands | 495 c932 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman makes a reasonable point, although it ignores the fact that beer consumption has ...
Kelvin Hopkins | 495 c931-2 (Link to this contribution)
I strongly support the Government's policy on alcohol prices, so will the hon. Gentleman not accept ...
Linda Gilroy | 495 c935 (Link to this contribution)
A moment ago, my hon. Friend the Member for Luton, North (Kelvin Hopkins) mentioned the unit price o...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c935 (Link to this contribution)
I am sure that it is possible, but I do not know whether that precise matter is in the terms of refe...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c933-4 (Link to this contribution)
I, too, have read the Hansard report of the debate in Committee of the whole House when alcohol duti...
Peter Bone | 495 c933 (Link to this contribution)
I shall not detain the House for long, although I should say that it is a pleasure to speak at sligh...
Kelvin Hopkins | 495 c933 (Link to this contribution)
I want to make two brief and simple points. The chief medical officer has suggested that alcohol sho...
Greg Hands | 495 c932-3 (Link to this contribution)
I will not because we are short of time. According to the amendment, the new beer escalator—in effec...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c935 (Link to this contribution)
I have already explained some of the constraints in EU alcohol law, but I picked out the ones on bee...
Kelvin Hopkins | 495 c935 (Link to this contribution)
I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. I am somewhat concerned about this emphasis on the EU, becaus...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 495 c934-5 (Link to this contribution)
Because we work on a zero base. It is an increase of 2 per cent. on zero, and it would not go back b...
Greg Hands | 495 c934 (Link to this contribution)
Can the Minister explain how the Government's escalator currently works? Is it still based on RPI pl...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c864 (Link to this contribution)
Is the hon. Gentleman going to declare his earnings at the higher rate now?
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 495 c866 (Link to this contribution)
I confess that I do not know the answer. I am merely reciting the IFS figures. Today it said that 50...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c923 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move amendment 38, page 4, line 34, at end insert—
Jeremy Browne | 495 c881 (Link to this contribution)
The hon. Gentleman is right to say that, under my proposal, people would go from paying no income ta...
Sally Keeble | 495 c863 (Link to this contribution)
My right hon. Friend is right to refer to pensioners such as himself. Male pensioners who retire at ...
Stephen Timms | 495 c844-6 (Link to this contribution)
The amendments and new clauses in this group all concern tax avoidance. For the tax system to be eff...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c907 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Gentleman empathise with my frustration at another Opposition party saying one thing t...
Jeremy Browne | 495 c884 (Link to this contribution)
Will the hon. Lady write to that very constituent to tell her that she had an opportunity to right t...
David Gauke | 495 c916 (Link to this contribution)
The Minister's view of the UK's taxation system is frankly complacent. Professional groups and busin...
Stephen Timms | 495 c844 (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Jeremy Browne | 495 c930 (Link to this contribution)
That would be an extremely popular measure, but it is not my intention. [Interruption.] The hon. Mem...
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2024-02-08 18:09:32 +0000
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