UK Parliament / Open data

Coroners and Justice Bill

Debate on bills on Tuesday, 24 March 2009, in the House of Commons, led by Bridget Prentice. The answering member was Lord Garnier.
Coroners and Justice Bill. Report stage second day. New clause 11, discussed with new clause 37, debated and withdrawn. New clause 19, discussed with new clause 38, debated and withdrawn. New clause 12, discussed with new clause 13, negatived on division (151 votes to 278). Amendments made. Third reading debate. Queen's consent and Prince of Wales's consent signified. Agreed to on division (283 votes to 62) and Bill passed. [Relevant Documents: The Second Report from the Justice Committee, Session 2008-09, The Coroners and Justice Bill, HC 185, and the Government's response, HC 322, and the Eighth Report from the Joint Committee on Human Rights, Session 2008-09, Legislative Scrutiny: Coroners and Justice Bill, HC 362.]
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
490 c188-274 
Session
2008-09
Department
Ministry of Justice
Legislative stage
Third reading and Report stage
Procedure
New clauses
Prince of Wales's consent
Queen's consent
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Coroners and Justice Bill. As amended in Public Bill Committee.
Tuesday, 10 March 2009
Bills
House of Commons
Coroners and Justice Bill. Justice Select Committee first special report - government response to the Committee's second report of session 2008-09 (HC 185).
Tuesday, 3 March 2009
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
Legislative scrutiny: Coroners and Justice Bill. Human Rights Joint Select Committee eighth report with formal minutes and evidence.
Tuesday, 17 March 2009
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
Coroners and Justice Bill. Justice Select Committee second report with formal minutes.
Tuesday, 20 January 2009
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
David Howarth | 490 c243-4 (Link to this contribution) I will be brief, but perhaps I should first gently point out to the Secretary of State that crime ha...
David Howarth | 490 c249 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Show all contributions (143)
Speaker | 490 c249 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: New clause 13—Effect of order on disclosu...
David Howarth | 490 c251-3 (Link to this contribution) We come to the anonymous witnesses part of the Bill. Members will recall that the anonymous witness ...
Evan Harris | 490 c253 (Link to this contribution) I want to let my hon. Friend know that in our report, the Joint Committee on Human Rights is wholly ...
David Howarth | 490 c253 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that news. I do not wish to take up more than half the time on Report for...
Lord Garnier | 490 c253-4 (Link to this contribution) I will be brief, because we are really up against the knives. I fully endorse what the hon. Member f...
Bridget Prentice | 490 c254-6 (Link to this contribution) I shall deal briefly with the two technical Government amendments in this group. Amendment 142 refin...
Alun Michael | 490 c243 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend accept that the interests of victims are specifically linked to the reduct...
Lord Garnier | 490 c266 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State knows precisely what the answer to that question is because he had a discussi...
Lord Garnier | 490 c265 (Link to this contribution) If I may finish the sentence, the Secretary of State may have as much time as he wishes—[Interruptio...
Jack Straw | 490 c266 (Link to this contribution) On the issue of rights, is the Conservative party committed to keeping the Human Rights Act on the s...
David Howarth | 490 c266-8 (Link to this contribution) May I also send my best wishes to the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. Member for Live...
Lord Garnier | 490 c266 (Link to this contribution) It is a no; that is right. Well done! I am delighted. It is almost a no that this Bill will get a Th...
Lord Garnier | 490 c266 (Link to this contribution) I know that the Secretary of State is deaf in one ear, but he heard the answer clearly yesterday. I ...
David Heath | 490 c269-70 (Link to this contribution) There are elements of the Bill with which I profoundly disagree, and I shall have no hesitation in f...
Angus Robertson | 490 c268-9 (Link to this contribution) I should like to speak briefly in support of the aspects of the Bill, as amended, that have an impac...
David Howarth | 490 c256 (Link to this contribution) I am not satisfied with the Government's responses. On property, the Under-Secretary gave an example...
Simon Hughes | 490 c262 (Link to this contribution) One of the matters about which nothing was said—because my amendments were not reached—was the quest...
Jenny Willott | 490 c262 (Link to this contribution) One of the other issues that was discussed at great length in Committee but that unfortunately we di...
Bridget Prentice | 490 c262 (Link to this contribution) I will come to the charter for the bereaved in a moment. For me personally, it is one of the most im...
Simon Hughes | 490 c263 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is a neighbouring MP and she knows that in this context one issue that often comes our ...
Bridget Prentice | 490 c262-3 (Link to this contribution) The chief coroner will have a number of powers in setting the national standards and making sure tha...
Lord Garnier | 490 c264-5 (Link to this contribution) May I begin by thanking the Minister for her kind words about the way in which the Opposition have e...
Bridget Prentice | 490 c264 (Link to this contribution) Of course I agree with the hon. Gentleman about how important that is, and I think the witness prote...
Jack Straw | 490 c265 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Evan Harris | 490 c271 (Link to this contribution) In the three minutes remaining for scrutiny of the Bill—[Interruption.] It is unbecoming for Governm...
Jack Straw | 490 c271 (Link to this contribution) We have responded to the Joint Committee's report because many of the changes in the Bill reflect it...
Evan Harris | 490 c271-2 (Link to this contribution) So much was done well by the Government, it is a pity that they failed on the fundamental question o...
Simon Hughes | 490 c270-1 (Link to this contribution) I share the views expressed by my hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath), and the...
David Howarth | 490 c188 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Speaker | 490 c188 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: New clause 37—Incitement to hatred on gro...
David Howarth | 490 c188-9 (Link to this contribution) We now come to a short debate about the aspects of the Bill involving homophobic hatred. The offence...
David Howarth | 490 c189 (Link to this contribution) This is a very short debate. Usually I give way freely but, if hon. Members will forgive me, I will ...
Dominic Grieve | 490 c189 (Link to this contribution) Cases in which people have been exposed to this sort of intrusive investigation, even though no pros...
David Howarth | 490 c189 (Link to this contribution) That is why it is very important that we have specific legislation to give guidance to the authoriti...
David Howarth | 490 c190-1 (Link to this contribution) And without intention, as my hon. Friend says. That is why yesterday I would have supported his amen...
Gerald Howarth | 490 c191 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is placing enormous reliance on guidance to be issued by the authorities—the Crow...
Viscount Hailsham | 490 c233-4 (Link to this contribution) I rise merely to express my anxiety about this House is creating a regime that is unduly prescriptiv...
Neil Gerrard | 490 c232-3 (Link to this contribution) I shall address my remarks to amendment 161. They follow on to some extent from some of the remarks ...
Viscount Hailsham | 490 c234 (Link to this contribution) That is a fair point, but there is another way of looking at this. When there is an indeterminate se...
Jack Straw | 490 c234 (Link to this contribution) I do not think there has been sufficient time for a full evaluation of the effectiveness of IPPs, bu...
Viscount Hailsham | 490 c234 (Link to this contribution) I agree with that. Many years ago, when I was an Under-Secretary at the Home Office, I was responsib...
Lord Garnier | 490 c234 (Link to this contribution) I do not know how many prisons the Justice Secretary has been to since he took up this new post, but...
Viscount Hailsham | 490 c235-6 (Link to this contribution) I think that that, too, is an important point, and I entirely agree with it. However, I shall move o...
Lord Beith | 490 c235 (Link to this contribution) There is a further reason why some IPP prisoners are in prison for longer than they ought to be, whi...
Jack Straw | 490 c237-9 (Link to this contribution) This debate has been very interesting and well informed, and I shall try to conclude it in that spir...
John McDonnell | 490 c236-7 (Link to this contribution) I rise to support amendment 161, which stands in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamst...
Lord Garnier | 490 c240 (Link to this contribution) What the courts have been doing since the 2003 Act is apply the guidelines by taking account or havi...
Jack Straw | 490 c240 (Link to this contribution) It is common ground that none of us wants a Minneapolis system or any other kind of American grid sy...
Lord Garnier | 490 c239-40 (Link to this contribution) Of course not. Lord Justice Gage very kindly invited me and the right hon. Member for Knowsley, Nort...
David Howarth | 490 c241 (Link to this contribution) That is something different, not "follow".
Jack Straw | 490 c240-1 (Link to this contribution) It is the hon. and learned Gentleman who has made it a semantic debate, because he tabled amendment ...
Jack Straw | 490 c242 (Link to this contribution) He was not quite my only friend, but they were few and far between. I was very grateful for his supp...
Jack Straw | 490 c241-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Cambridge says that that is not "follow", but something different. I say to him ...
Jack Straw | 490 c242 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Islington, North (Jeremy Corbyn) is muttering, but I am afraid that I ...
Jeremy Corbyn | 490 c242 (Link to this contribution) Since the Minister invites me to join in, I can tell him that I was just wondering whether what he w...
Jack Straw | 490 c243 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that my right hon. Friend intervened with that remark, because it brings me to my last poi...
Alun Michael | 490 c243 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend bear it in mind that part of that success was due to giving the youth just...
Jack Straw | 490 c242 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Member for Harborough says that we are suffering from them, but I was about to ...
Jack Straw | 490 c243 (Link to this contribution) Another hon. Gentleman on the Opposition Front Bench asks me to name the triumphs. I could name a nu...
David Leslie Taylor | 490 c192-4 (Link to this contribution) I hope later formally to press amendment 1 and to have the opportunity to vote on it. It has been si...
Evan Harris | 490 c194 (Link to this contribution) Let me try to explain why there is a difference. The religious saver specifies that abuse and ridicu...
David Leslie Taylor | 490 c194-5 (Link to this contribution) I shall deal with that at the end of my remarks. The religious free speech clause deliberately narr...
Gerald Howarth | 490 c195 (Link to this contribution) Surely the retention of clause 58 would also indicate to the courts that this House does not believe...
David Leslie Taylor | 490 c195-6 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that that is right, and I strongly endorse what the hon. Gentleman says. Someone else who...
David Howarth | 490 c196 (Link to this contribution) I notice that the hon. Gentleman used the qualifying word "mainly". Does he concede that new clause ...
David Leslie Taylor | 490 c196 (Link to this contribution) There is some merit in that, but it is not a particularly strong point. New clause 11 reminds the A...
David Howarth | 490 c191-2 (Link to this contribution) But that guidance has nothing to do with this aspect of the Bill because it has not yet been brought...
David Howarth | 490 c192 (Link to this contribution) I am very glad that my hon. Friend has brought me back to his proposal to remove the word "insulting...
Evan Harris | 490 c192 (Link to this contribution) May I bring my hon. Friend back to the fact that there are complaints, which I recognise as genuine,...
Tom Harris | 490 c201 (Link to this contribution) It seems to be very curious logic to say that because the House voted one way at some point in the p...
Bridget Prentice | 490 c201 (Link to this contribution) Of course the House can change its mind, and we will discover in the Lobbies in 20 minutes or so whe...
David Leslie Taylor | 490 c200-1 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree—I assume she does, as she will have signed off the information given by th...
Bridget Prentice | 490 c201 (Link to this contribution) I will come on to the guidance in a moment, but let me just point out a key difference to my hon. Fr...
John Bercow | 490 c200 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister recall the comment made by the distinguished lawyer, Lord Thomas of Gresford:""Fre...
Bridget Prentice | 490 c200 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman, as always, puts the argument so eloquently that I simply endorse what he says. ...
Bridget Prentice | 490 c199-200 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) and the hon. Member for Oxford, West and A...
Dominic Grieve | 490 c199 (Link to this contribution) Yes. I apologise to the hon. Gentleman for that fact that, in the time allowed, I have not dealt wit...
Evan Harris | 490 c198-9 (Link to this contribution) I respect the hon. and learned Gentleman's position on matters of free speech. He is right to critic...
Dominic Grieve | 490 c196-8 (Link to this contribution) As this is a short debate, I shall try to keep my remarks as short as possible. The hon. Member for ...
Tom Harris | 490 c203-4 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that so many colleagues have taken their places to listen to my short contribution. I...
Ann Widdecombe | 490 c202-3 (Link to this contribution) I remind the hon. Gentleman of his reply to me. In the Lancashire case, a couple were questioned by...
Evan Harris | 490 c203 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Lady and I would point out that taking the word "insulting" out of section 5 o...
Ann Widdecombe | 490 c203 (Link to this contribution) I do not agree that that is the only way forward, because that addresses one law. Today, we have to ...
Evan Harris | 490 c202 (Link to this contribution) On new clause 37, does the Minister agree with us that whenever any linkage of homosexuality with pa...
Bridget Prentice | 490 c202 (Link to this contribution) I have invited the hon. Member for Cambridge, who moved the new clause, to discuss that with the DPP...
Ann Widdecombe | 490 c202 (Link to this contribution) I support amendment 1, but irrespective of which side of the argument one stands on today, it is reg...
Bridget Prentice | 490 c202 (Link to this contribution) I have to reject the hon. Gentleman's argument, because the word "threatening", in this context, has...
Gerald Howarth | 490 c201 (Link to this contribution) I believe the Minister said in response to the Liberals that she will consult the Attorney-General o...
David Howarth | 490 c214-5 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Member for North-West Norfolk (Mr. Bellingham) intimated, the most important amendment i...
Lord Bellingham | 490 c213-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister, and I do not want to be churlish. We had a vote and the clause stood ...
Bridget Prentice | 490 c213 (Link to this contribution) For the record, and as the hon. Gentleman will know, I said clearly in response to the Committee deb...
Lord Bellingham | 490 c211-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making that point, on which he can expand when he makes his ...
David Howarth | 490 c204 (Link to this contribution) Given the Government's generous offer, I beg to ask leave to withdraw new clause 11. Clause, by lea...
Speaker | 490 c204 (Link to this contribution) I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the Aye Lobby.
Lord Bellingham | 490 c210-1 (Link to this contribution) In addition to new clause 19, which stands in my names and those of my hon. and learned Friends the ...
Andrew Dismore | 490 c211 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his comments about new clause 38. As he says, the Informatio...
Lord Bellingham | 490 c208 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Speaker | 490 c208 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: New clause 38—Failure by a government dep...
Lord Bellingham | 490 c222 (Link to this contribution) We are sorry to learn that the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. Member for Liverpool, ...
Bridget Prentice | 490 c221-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes a good point, and she is quite right. Although it may be fun playing about with ...
David Howarth | 490 c223 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 20, page 61, line 37, at end insert—
David Howarth | 490 c215-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Gentleman requests more, but I am sure that that is enough for the time being. ...
David Howarth | 490 c216 (Link to this contribution) Yes, that is the case. One has to take into account the interaction of different Government policies...
Evan Harris | 490 c216-7 (Link to this contribution) I rise briefly to speak to the two amendments tabled in my name and those of the hon. Members for He...
Bridget Prentice | 490 c217-21 (Link to this contribution) I am speaking a little sooner than I expected, but there we are. I begin with Government amendment 2...
David Howarth | 490 c227 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry. There are a number of amendments to a similar effect. Overall, there has always been a ...
Lord Garnier | 490 c225-6 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State is right in his analysis of the effect of some short sentences and the effect...
David Howarth | 490 c226 (Link to this contribution) That is an important point. In cases of domestic murder, for example, the chances of reoffending are...
Jack Straw | 490 c225 (Link to this contribution) Surely the hon. Gentleman's point is rather less absolute and is, in fact, a relative one. The point...
David Howarth | 490 c225 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the Secretary of State that the debate is not about absolutes; it is about tendencies a...
Alun Michael | 490 c224 (Link to this contribution) I endorse the hon. Gentleman's comments. I signed amendments 20 and 21 because it is a weakness not ...
David Howarth | 490 c224-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that important point. Sometimes, we in politics misunderstand w...
David Howarth | 490 c223-4 (Link to this contribution) We now deal with the provisions on sentencing, especially on the Sentencing Council and sentencing g...
Lord Garnier | 490 c232 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention, but it is not a question of either/o...
Lord Garnier | 490 c229-31 (Link to this contribution) That is the expression used by my hon. Friend, and I would say that the truth that was always there ...
Viscount Hailsham | 490 c231 (Link to this contribution) Are not the local circumstances one of the most important considerations for a sentencing judge to t...
Lord Garnier | 490 c231-2 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend is entirely right. What he has said is doubtless based on his exper...
Lord Beith | 490 c232 (Link to this contribution) There is a danger in the approach implied in both the question and the answer. It is a twofold dange...
Lord Garnier | 490 c228 (Link to this contribution) I want briefly, if I may, to discuss some of the amendments tabled by the Government and by the Libe...
Lord Garnier | 490 c228-9 (Link to this contribution) As my right hon. and learned Friend says truthfully and entirely sensibly, there is absolutely no di...
Alun Michael | 490 c227-8 (Link to this contribution) I want the Sentencing Council to be a success and I want it to be effective, and I know that my righ...
Jack Straw | 490 c241 (Link to this contribution) I accept that to a degree, although there is not much difference. I am seeking to implement what Lor...
Jenny Willott | 490 c221 (Link to this contribution) Has the Minister asked the Information Commissioner to consider the implications for public services...
Jack Straw | 490 c243 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely do. I hope that I have satisfied the hon. and learned Member for Harborough in respect ...
Bridget Prentice | 490 c260-2 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. This is an important Bill, which has been ...
Speaker | 490 c223 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Amendment 21, page 61, leave out lines 41...
Ann Widdecombe | 490 c189 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Viscount Hailsham | 490 c241 (Link to this contribution) Does the Secretary of State accept that, when he advocates the use of the word "follow", he is givin...
Jeremy Corbyn | 490 c242 (Link to this contribution) This is an admission of past mistakes.
Jenny Willott | 490 c216 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the number of people who are getting caught out by that is increasing...
Subjects
Complaints
Disclosure of information
Data protection
Databases
Codes of practice
Accountability
Armed forces
Alternatives to prison
Coroners
Damage
Finance
Homicide
Government departments
Discrimination
Industrial accidents
Immunity from prosecution
Freedom of expression
Offenders
Private sector
Personal records
Protection
Powers
Public bodies
Property
Staff
Paedophilia
Scotland
Rehabilitation
Sentencing
Standards
Witnesses
Sexuality
Religious freedom
Sanctions
Reoffenders
Information Commissioner's Office
Homophobia
Sentencing Council for England and Wales
Legislation
Coroners and Justice Bill 2008-09
Link
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