UK Parliament / Open data

Treaty of Lisbon (No. 8)

Debates on treaty on Wednesday, 27 February 2008, in the House of Commons, led by Hilary Benn. The answering member was Peter Ainsworth.
Debate on a motion to approve the Lisbon Treaty (Cm 7294). Provisions concerning climate change. Eighth day debate. Amendment negatived on division (164 to 345). Main question agreed on division (356 to 165).
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
472 c1097-163 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Treaty of Lisbon amending the Treaty establishing the European Union and the Treaty establishing the European Community, including the Protocols and Final Act with Declarations. (Lisbon 2007).
Monday, 17 December 2007
Command papers
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 472 c1119 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am sure that the whole House realises that the eight-minute limit on Back-Bench speeches is...
Bob Spink | 472 c1128 (Link to this contribution) I cannot allow my hon. Friend to get away with saying that Europe has helped to clean up the environ...

Show all contributions (161)
Peter Atkinson | 472 c1127-8 (Link to this contribution) All I can say is well done Mr. Lester Brown. I hope that the meeting is successful, as the issue is ...
Joan Walley | 472 c1127 (Link to this contribution) Mr. Brown is attending a meeting in the House next week and his book is called ““Mobilizing to Save ...
Peter Atkinson | 472 c1127 (Link to this contribution) I regret that we will never discover quite what Mr. Lester Brown did, unless the hon. Member for Sto...
Patricia Hewitt | 472 c1129 (Link to this contribution) I am following the hon. Gentleman's thoughtful comments with great interest and I happen to agree wi...
Peter Atkinson | 472 c1128-9 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State shakes his head, but Europe could indeed deregulate more. Secondly, it should...
Peter Atkinson | 472 c1128 (Link to this contribution) I disagree with my hon. Friend on that. I appreciate that Europe is not perfect, but it has made som...
Peter Atkinson | 472 c1129 (Link to this contribution) I accept what the right hon. Lady says. She was very much involved in that process, which was certai...
David Kidney | 472 c1129-30 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson) would not give way to me, but she made an excel...
Bob Spink | 472 c1130 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is talking about words and rhetoric, and he will recall the common fisheries poli...
Lord Deben | 472 c1131 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that the decision to have an EU system whereby those who could do mor...
David Kidney | 472 c1130-1 (Link to this contribution) I would advise the hon. Gentleman not to listen to my or anyone else's rhetoric, but to look at the ...
David Kidney | 472 c1131-2 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the right hon. Gentleman, and that is a good example of social justice in action. I am ...
James Clappison | 472 c1132-3 (Link to this contribution) I hope that my right hon. Friend will not mind if I take this opportunity to pay tribute to the very...
Lord Deben | 472 c1132 (Link to this contribution) I have generally welcomed the treaty of Lisbon because it brings together in a sensible form a syste...
Jo Swinson | 472 c1124 (Link to this contribution) That is true, but they are not currently commercially viable. It is important to look at the differe...
Mike Weir | 472 c1124 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate what the hon. Lady is saying, but does she not agree that a distinction has to be made ...
Jo Swinson | 472 c1125 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. We took a lot of evidence on the Select Committee about...
Jo Swinson | 472 c1123 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the hon. Gentleman, but I really do want to make progress, because many other hon. Me...
Jo Swinson | 472 c1124 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point. Plastic bags can indeed be a scourge in terms of litt...
Martin Salter | 472 c1123 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that it is about time that we saw some effective action to get rid of the s...
Joan Walley | 472 c1125-7 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson). I say to her and to the...
Speaker | 472 c1127 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Lady has had her eight minutes.
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1122 (Link to this contribution) I agree with much of what the hon. Lady is saying, but does she agree that the latest proposal to fo...
Jo Swinson | 472 c1122 (Link to this contribution) There would certainly be a case for that in some parts of Scotland during the winter months, but I s...
Graham Stuart | 472 c1122 (Link to this contribution) It is a very quick question. Will the hon. Lady share with the House one key practical change in Eur...
Jo Swinson | 472 c1122 (Link to this contribution) I do not have a crystal ball, but I certainly believe that it is important that climate change is li...
Jo Swinson | 472 c1122 (Link to this contribution) I will, but I want to make some progress.
Speaker | 472 c1110 (Link to this contribution) Order. We cannot have hon. Members waving documents about in the Chamber.
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1110 (Link to this contribution) What has happened is that the Government have dedicated three and a half hours today to discussing t...
Martin Caton | 472 c1109 (Link to this contribution) Just before the previous interventions, the hon. Gentleman said that climate change affects us all, ...
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1109-10 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman. If the House will allow me to make progress, I am about to...
Colin Challen | 472 c1109 (Link to this contribution) In an intervention, the hon. Gentleman said that the Conservative amendment was all about adding sub...
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1109 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman is patient, he will hear me discuss the ETS later in my speech.
Steve Webb | 472 c1108 (Link to this contribution) I very much agree with the hon. Gentleman on the need for a new politics and consensus on climate ch...
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1108-9 (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that Conservative peers abstained on that vote. However, I am pleased by the co-...
Speaker | 472 c1108 (Link to this contribution) Order. That was more like a speech than an intervention.
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1108 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend will no doubt have an opportunity to catch your eye later, Mr. Speaker, but he ...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1106-7 (Link to this contribution) Well, Europe has made a start because it has a goal—a temperature target. There is a question of wha...
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1107-8 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, To leave out from 'House' to end and add"'notes that the Treaty of Lisbon makes no su...
Greg Knight | 472 c1108 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend share my anger and concern that in the past few days, despite sensible oppositio...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1106 (Link to this contribution) The last point in article 191.1 refers to"““promoting measures at international level to deal with r...
James Clappison | 472 c1106 (Link to this contribution) I agree with many of the general points that the Secretary of State is making. On the point raised b...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1106 (Link to this contribution) What is new is the inclusion of the strategic objective of addressing climate change, which we shoul...
Martin Horwood | 472 c1105 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Rob Marris | 472 c1106 (Link to this contribution) Given that, according to the House of Commons Library, per capita CO2 emissions in the United Kingdo...
Lord Deben | 472 c1104 (Link to this contribution) Given that the Climate Change Bill was the product of Opposition pressure and Government willingness...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1104 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the right hon. Gentleman absolutely. All our thinking has evolved. That is reflected in...
Graham Stuart | 472 c1103-4 (Link to this contribution) I would have thought that as we are devoting a day to considering the Lisbon treaty as it relates to...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1104 (Link to this contribution) I am not trying to use climate change as a cover for anything at all. I was in the middle of pointin...
Martin Salter | 472 c1105 (Link to this contribution) Does the Secretary of State agree that Conservative Members would be able to make a more valid contr...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1105 (Link to this contribution) They certainly are. If hon. Members read article 191 in the consolidated texts, they will find all t...
Colin Challen | 472 c1104 (Link to this contribution) Brevity is not necessarily an indication of substance. The phrase"““all men shall be free””" underp...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1104-5 (Link to this contribution) The straight answer to my hon. Friend's point is that that was what the Council of Ministers was abl...
Graham Stuart | 472 c1103 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the Secretary of State, who is as generous as ever in giving way. The six...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1103 (Link to this contribution) I have great respect for the hon. Gentleman, but in preparing for the debate and standing at the Dis...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1101 (Link to this contribution) Of course it should. Given the strength of the argument against the Opposition amendment, maybe some...
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1101 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that Labour Members appear to be confused by the amendment, as it is very straightforward...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1101 (Link to this contribution) I have read those words very carefully. I have also read the amendment that will be debated later, w...
Mark Francois | 472 c1101 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State confirm that that is a Back-Bench amendment? Yes or no?
Hilary Benn | 472 c1102 (Link to this contribution) I do recognise that; if Opposition Front Benchers are saying that they will not support it, that is ...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1102 (Link to this contribution) I think that those on the Opposition Front Bench have indicated that they will not. It would not mak...
Barry Sheerman | 472 c1102 (Link to this contribution) Some of us heard an interesting speaker from Surfers Against Sewage last night, not far from this Ho...
Elliot Morley | 472 c1101 (Link to this contribution) Does that not underline how confusing the Opposition amendment is? Surely, if climate change is impo...
Jo Swinson | 472 c1121-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a good point—and a good case for a stronger Europe that is able to take act...
Phil Woolas | 472 c1120 (Link to this contribution) To back up the hon. Lady's point, I should say that it is not often understood that we have already ...
Jo Swinson | 472 c1120 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. We need to consider climate change in the context of bo...
Rob Marris | 472 c1120 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to hear the hon. Lady talk about adaptation, which is not discussed enough in the Hou...
Jo Swinson | 472 c1119-20 (Link to this contribution) It is a particular pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Mr. Morley), who has dis...
Elliot Morley | 472 c1118-9 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I accept that, although the United Kingdom played an important role in those negotiations. Neve...
Elliot Morley | 472 c1117-8 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the opportunity to discuss climate change and to do so in the context of the Lisbon treaty...
Jo Swinson | 472 c1120 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. The confirmation in article 2C of the environment as a shared competence is also welcome. Of...
David Kidney | 472 c1115 (Link to this contribution) On the difference between wind developments in the UK and Germany, more than 100 onshore wind develo...
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1115 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. It was a disaster last year when, because of the Government's...
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1115-6 (Link to this contribution) The problem—I have touched on this already—is that the structure of the renewables obligation means ...
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1113-5 (Link to this contribution) I want to make it absolutely clear, with the Foreign Secretary's explicit endorsement, that our oppo...
Graham Stuart | 472 c1115 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that in the energy sector, the biggest challenge that climate change prese...
Hugh Bayley | 472 c1116-7 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I did not want to misuse a point of order by interrupting t...
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1116 (Link to this contribution) I am about to finish, so if the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I will not give way again. In concl...
Speaker | 472 c1117 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am sorry to choke the hon. Gentleman off so early, but we are taking time up from the debat...
Martin Horwood | 472 c1112 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has just made the extraordinary statement that it does not need a treaty to take ...
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1112 (Link to this contribution) It does not need a treaty to take effective action on climate change. I refer the hon. Gentleman, wh...
Alan Whitehead | 472 c1112-3 (Link to this contribution) I have been trying to follow the logic of the hon. Gentleman's presentation for some time. If he doe...
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1112 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has been patient, so I shall give way.
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1112 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. I should have said ““a new treaty””, as the existing provisio...
Martin Horwood | 472 c1113 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. He may not know this, but his party's foreign af...
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1113 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, and then I really will make progress.
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1113 (Link to this contribution) Almost all the words to which the hon. Gentleman refers are imported from other treaties. My point i...
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1110 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to any hon. Gentleman from the Labour party who can answer that question.
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1110 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will be patient, I shall come to some of those issues and some of the positive...
Paddy Tipping | 472 c1110 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman said earlier that actions speak louder than words. Are not the important vehicles...
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1110 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to my right hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk, Coastal (Mr. Gummer), but then I mu...
Hugh Bayley | 472 c1111 (Link to this contribution) The question is whether the Conservative party speaks with one voice. The right hon. Member for Suff...
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1111 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes a compelling and important point. I understand that none of the amendment...
Peter Ainsworth | 472 c1111 (Link to this contribution) The evidence of these debates has been that the divisions are all on the other side of the House. I ...
David Chaytor | 472 c1111 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman is opposed to the provisions in the treaty relating to the reform of instituti...
James Clappison | 472 c1101 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State is being very generous in giving way and he is making his case most eloquentl...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1101 (Link to this contribution) No, there is not. The treaty does not change the shared competence and qualified majority voting app...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1099-100 (Link to this contribution) The EU has competence in relation to flights that come in and out of the Union. Frankly, if the Inte...
Mike Weir | 472 c1099 (Link to this contribution) I am following what the Secretary of State is saying, but is it not the case that, although aviation...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1100 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend entirely. As she will know, the challenge is even more complex in relati...
Joan Walley | 472 c1100 (Link to this contribution) In view of what my right hon. Friend has said about aviation, would he agree that an equal, if not s...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1100 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend completely. This is about providing leadership in the world. If we all w...
Hugh Bayley | 472 c1100 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that people throughout the world, not just those who live in the EU,...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1101 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a very fair point. In truth, people will look at that amendment and think, ...
Martin Horwood | 472 c1100-1 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State has just mentioned the subject of my question. On the international situation...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1097 (Link to this contribution) I shall address aviation later in my speech. Interestingly, although the abandoned constitution did ...
Speaker | 472 c1097 (Link to this contribution) I inform the House that I have selected the amendment in the name of the right hon. Member for Richm...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1097 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That this House approves the Government's policy towards the Treaty of Lisbon in resp...
Nick Hurd | 472 c1099 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State has warned the Opposition about the danger of sending baffling messages on cl...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1099 (Link to this contribution) I will come to the emissions trading scheme and aviation later. The hon. Gentleman will know that a ...
David Chaytor | 472 c1098 (Link to this contribution) Is it not clear that the suggestion in the Conservatives' amendment that"““the Treaty of Lisbon is e...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1098-9 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend entirely. Indeed, part of the purpose of the Lisbon treaty is to enable ...
Graham Stuart | 472 c1098 (Link to this contribution) Does the Secretary of State accept that adding six words to the Lisbon treaty is hardly going to tra...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1098 (Link to this contribution) Methinks the hon. Gentleman doth protest too much. Yes, this measure will institutionalise what the ...
Lord Deben | 472 c1098 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that those who are concerned about the precise, detailed wording...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1098 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman absolutely makes the case. I pay tribute to the work that he has done over ...
Speaker | 472 c1141 (Link to this contribution) Order. There is a limited amount of time left for contributions from Back Benchers. If hon. Members ...
Martin Salter | 472 c1141-3 (Link to this contribution) It is regrettable that the time available is so limited. If Front Benchers had exercised a little mo...
Nick Hurd | 472 c1139-41 (Link to this contribution) The future viability of the emissions trading scheme depends on the cap that is set and whether the ...
Graham Stuart | 472 c1146-7 (Link to this contribution) In earlier interventions I expressed frustration at the way in which the six words on climate change...
Mike Weir | 472 c1147 (Link to this contribution) I should like to clarify that I did not mention the renewable transport fuel obligation; I was talki...
Mike Weir | 472 c1143-4 (Link to this contribution) Today's debate on the wording of the treaty seems to me a bit like the debate about how many angels ...
Alan Whitehead | 472 c1144-6 (Link to this contribution) It is a statement of the blindingly obvious, but we in Europe have to work together on climate chang...
Graham Stuart | 472 c1147 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree. Perhaps I read into the hon. Gentleman's contribution some sense that criticism sh...
David Chaytor | 472 c1148 (Link to this contribution) Today's debate has been far more rational, outward-looking and forward-thinking than some of the pre...
Michael Meacher | 472 c1135 (Link to this contribution) I will, although I hope that the hon. Gentleman is not going to make the same point that he has made...
Bob Spink | 472 c1135 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving way, and I assure him that I shall make a ...
Michael Meacher | 472 c1135-6 (Link to this contribution) We should not underestimate President Sarkozy's commitment in respect of climate change. In fact, he...
David Chaytor | 472 c1136 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is making exactly my point: regardless of what we think of President Sarkozy's ...
Michael Meacher | 472 c1136 (Link to this contribution) I agree, but let us get back to the UK. The Government have admitted that they are allowing for—and ...
Graham Stuart | 472 c1136 (Link to this contribution) The intergovernmental panel on climate change's fourth assessment report said that global emissions ...
Michael Meacher | 472 c1136-8 (Link to this contribution) I am certainly one of those who feel that time is exceedingly short. The report from Nicholas Stern ...
Nick Hurd | 472 c1139 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State has made it clear that the Lisbon treaty does not significantly change the po...
David Chaytor | 472 c1139 (Link to this contribution) To revert briefly to the single currency, does the hon. Gentleman think it would be possible to oper...
David Chaytor | 472 c1148-9 (Link to this contribution) I cannot give way in view of the time. If Conservative Members wish to dismiss the content of the t...
James Clappison | 472 c1149-50 (Link to this contribution) I make common cause with the hon. Member for Bury, North (Mr. Chaytor) to the extent that I have fai...
Lord Barker of Battle | 472 c1150-3 (Link to this contribution) We have had a good debate—I think that we all agree on that. The first Back Bencher to speak was the...
Phil Woolas | 472 c1153-4 (Link to this contribution) I concur with the hon. Member for Bexhill and Battle (Gregory Barker) that this has been a very good...
Phil Woolas | 472 c1155 (Link to this contribution) I take your instruction, Madam Deputy Speaker. I was just getting to the partnership between the Con...
Graham Stuart | 472 c1154 (Link to this contribution) The simple point is that on climate change, the treaty makes no difference. On many other issues, it...
Phil Woolas | 472 c1154 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that confirmation that the treaty of Lisbon is not a radical giving-u...
Michael Meacher | 472 c1135 (Link to this contribution) After listening to that splendid eulogy on behalf of Europe, much of which I agree with, I want to t...
Lord Deben | 472 c1133-4 (Link to this contribution) We had only 15 members at the time. We now have 27. That is why the change has to take place. Howeve...
Bob Spink | 472 c1135 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Hilary Benn | 472 c1105 (Link to this contribution) I want to make a little more progress because many hon. Members wish to speak and I want to give the...
Lord Deben | 472 c1110-1 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend not being rather kind to the Government? The truth is that it would be perfectly p...
Speaker | 472 c1155 (Link to this contribution) Order. Perhaps the Minister will now address his remarks to the amendment and the treaty.
Martin Caton | 472 c1124-5 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Lady's line on biofuels. When talking about some sort of sustainability scheme...
Jo Swinson | 472 c1122 (Link to this contribution) Indeed—I was just coming to the directive on vehicle emissions, which phases out and bans leaded pet...
Lord Deben | 472 c1118 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman go back a stage further and accept that the Kyoto treaty would never h...
Colin Challen | 472 c1097 (Link to this contribution) Regardless of what we think of the nature of the protests that have taken place today on the roof of...
Hilary Benn | 472 c1102-3 (Link to this contribution) That is entirely the case. Europe has been a force for good in improving the quality of our environm...
Graham Stuart | 472 c1120-1 (Link to this contribution) Like the hon. Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Rob Marris), I praise the hon. Lady for raising ...
Subjects
Climate change
Environment protection
European Union
Treaties
Carbon emissions
Treaty of Lisbon
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