UK Parliament / Open data

Treaty of Lisbon (No. 4)

Debates on treaty on Wednesday, 6 February 2008, in the House of Commons, led by Simon Hughes. The answering member was Lord Hutton of Furness.
Debate on a motion to approve the Lisbon Treaty (Cm 7294). Provisions concerning the single market. Fourth day debate. Amendment negatived on division (176 to 352). Main question agreed on division (345 to 186).
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
471 c978-1037 
Session
2007-08
Department
Foreign and Commonwealth Office
Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Treaty of Lisbon amending the Treaty establishing the European Union and the Treaty establishing the European Community, including the Protocols and Final Act with Declarations. (Lisbon 2007).
Monday, 17 December 2007
Command papers
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 471 c1000 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind the House that Mr. Speaker has placed an eight-minute limit on Back-Bench speeches, ...
Lord Deben | 471 c1012-3 (Link to this contribution) The one advantage that I have over my hon. Friend is that I am in business, have been in business an...

Show all contributions (148)
William Cash | 471 c1012 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is making a cogent case for his point of view, with which I do not agree. Given...
Lord Deben | 471 c1013 (Link to this contribution) The one nation that I was referring to, as my hon. Friend knows, was that of Disraeli, who was not t...
Mark Francois | 471 c1014 (Link to this contribution) The party to which the hon. Gentleman is referring is the ODS, which is the party of Government in t...
Doug Henderson | 471 c1013-4 (Link to this contribution) The Lisbon treaty does not change the original single market very much. There are some technical poi...
Frank Dobson | 471 c1011 (Link to this contribution) The existing treaty and new treaty provide that there should not be a European Court of Justice inte...
Lord Deben | 471 c1011-2 (Link to this contribution) I think I should go on. I say to my hon. Friends in particular that their arguments sometimes compar...
Mark Francois | 471 c1010 (Link to this contribution) Not today, but once or twice before.
Nia Griffith | 471 c1008-10 (Link to this contribution) The single market is central to the European Union. We know that in the 1950s the forerunner of the ...
Vincent Cable | 471 c1007-8 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely true, but the right hon. Gentleman was also questioning people's ability to spend...
Nia Griffith | 471 c1010 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. The hon. Member for Rayleigh (Mr. Francois) did not let me intervene on him in the previous ...
Mark Pritchard | 471 c1006 (Link to this contribution) I accept what the hon. Gentleman just said, but does he accept that if we signed up to a single mone...
Vincent Cable | 471 c1006-7 (Link to this contribution) Or Liberal Democrat, for that matter. Yes, there almost certainly would be greater restraint, but I ...
Vincent Cable | 471 c1005-6 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is correct. In my earlier professional career, I tried to help establish co...
Michael Connarty | 471 c1020 (Link to this contribution) Should not the removal of undistorted competition be welcomed, when we know that it is combined with...
Stuart Bell | 471 c1020 (Link to this contribution) I have the same respect for the right hon. Gentleman, as he will know. We go back a long way and I a...
Adam Price | 471 c1021-3 (Link to this contribution) It is useful to remind ourselves of why we are discussing a European treaty plain and simple, and no...
Stuart Bell | 471 c1020-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend. Competition is in the interests of the consumer, the producer and t...
Sion Simon | 471 c1017 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentioned the Single European Act and the Maastricht treaty in glowing terms, but...
James Clappison | 471 c1017-8 (Link to this contribution) It would have been better if the hon. Gentleman had waited until the end of my speech. I shall give ...
Stuart Bell | 471 c1019 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to follow the hon. Member for Hertsmere (Mr. Clappison), who made a sound and strong s...
Lord Lilley | 471 c1019 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is saying that the Lisbon treaty is somewhat worse than the original constitution...
Sion Simon | 471 c1016 (Link to this contribution) Will he give way on that point?
Sion Simon | 471 c1016 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
James Clappison | 471 c1016 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne, North (Mr. Henderson). I do not ...
Doug Henderson | 471 c1015-6 (Link to this contribution) I am not taking any more interventions, as I promised Mr. Deputy Speaker that I shall not take my fu...
Speaker | 471 c1015 (Link to this contribution) Before the hon. Gentleman responds to that intervention, may I say that although we have a time limi...
Doug Henderson | 471 c1015 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. This hon. Member will feel able to take less than his allo...
Mark Hendrick | 471 c1014 (Link to this contribution) I support what my hon. Friend is saying. The ODS is a fairly new, right-wing party. Does not that sh...
Doug Henderson | 471 c1014 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman is accurate, it is one of the coalition parties in the Government, and it is c...
Rob Marris | 471 c996-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman's usual generosity. I want open competitive markets, but I obje...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 471 c997 (Link to this contribution) The word is ““undistorted””, not ““unfettered””, and I am coming to the political signals sent out b...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 471 c995 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way in just a moment. We have heard before, and again today, that none of this matters....
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 471 c995 (Link to this contribution) We have been around this loop before. We want an open and competitive European market, and a strengt...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 471 c995-6 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the hon. Gentleman will just bear with me. I shall deal with three issues, the first of ...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c996 (Link to this contribution) I hope that hon. Gentleman will turn his attention to the following point, which I was trying to mak...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 471 c996 (Link to this contribution) I remind the right hon. Gentleman that his party was committed to demonstrating the legitimacy of th...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 471 c996 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to the hon. Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Rob Marris) because of his persis...
William Cash | 471 c994-5 (Link to this contribution) I agree with a great deal of what my hon. Friend is saying, but may I just qualify one point? Is it ...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 471 c995 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my hon. Friend will make his case in due course. My purpose is to demonstrate that th...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 471 c992 (Link to this contribution) The treaty as currently drafted refers to a ““social market economy””, but reference to undistorted ...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 471 c992-3 (Link to this contribution) If Members will allow me, I shall deal with this specific point in detail shortly. The constitution...
Sion Simon | 471 c992 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman told my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas) that the treaty referred t...
Patricia Hewitt | 471 c993 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has been talking about the changes—which are cosmetic in my view—in terms of comp...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 471 c994 (Link to this contribution) On the contrary, the right hon. Lady is simply wrong. Yes, the protocol has the same legal status as...
Chris Ruane | 471 c993 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman talks about President Sarkozy sticking up for his country. The European structura...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 471 c993 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman wants to fight the battles of 20 years ago, but I think most people want to deal ...
Speaker | 471 c1005 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I make a plea for short interventions? There is precious little time left, and a number o...
Vincent Cable | 471 c1005 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the point made by the hon. Member for Preston (Mr. Hendrick).
Lord Deben | 471 c1005 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that common markets that did not set up a firm institutional base wit...
Vincent Cable | 471 c1004 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is right. The Brits are good at buying houses, but not at plumbing. On top...
William Cash | 471 c1004 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making an interesting and fair analysis, but he has not yet mentioned one of t...
Vincent Cable | 471 c1004-5 (Link to this contribution) I will come on to the cost of regulation later. Of course there has to be an arbiter, because there ...
Mark Hendrick | 471 c1005 (Link to this contribution) On bringing in common standards, does the hon. Gentleman agree that harmonisation has meant that lot...
Frank Dobson | 471 c1004 (Link to this contribution) Only they're no good at plumbing.
Vincent Cable | 471 c1003-4 (Link to this contribution) Of course competition is a means rather than an end, but the French President is seeking ends that a...
Rob Marris | 471 c1003 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr. Hammond) decried President Sarkozy for saying that ...
Frank Dobson | 471 c1000-2 (Link to this contribution) I confess that I approach this matter from the opposite end of the spectrum to the hon. Member for R...
Vincent Cable | 471 c1002-3 (Link to this contribution) I had assumed that there would be quite a high degree of consensus on this part of the treaty debate...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 471 c999-1000 (Link to this contribution) A protocol does have the same legal status as the rest of the treaty. My point is that in pursuing t...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 471 c999 (Link to this contribution) I had not intended to cite specific decisions, but it appears that I will have to. A 1999 decision i...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c999 (Link to this contribution) Only 10 minutes ago, the hon. Gentleman accepted that the protocol had exactly the same effect as an...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 471 c998-9 (Link to this contribution) We have heard from the hon. Gentleman and from the Secretary of State what the Government think. The...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c999 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman asserts that as a fact. Can he point me to a decision of the European Court that ...
Sion Simon | 471 c998 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has made it clear that he is strongly in favour of a high degree of competition. ...
Harry Cohen | 471 c1024 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. This is a very short debate, lasting only three hours, and ...
David Gauke | 471 c1024-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Member for Leyton and Wanstead (Harry Cohen) for highlighting how extraordinary it ...
Speaker | 471 c1024 (Link to this contribution) All that the hon. Gentleman is seeking to do is take up even more time. I think that we should proce...
Michael Connarty | 471 c1023 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a strong case, but he ignores the detail of the protocol. Article 1 cle...
Adam Price | 471 c1023-4 (Link to this contribution) I said that some progress had been made, in the addition of the protocol as a result of political pr...
Judy Mallaber | 471 c1025 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman's party were to seek to renegotiate the treaty, given the importance of preven...
David Gauke | 471 c1025 (Link to this contribution) The point I am making is that the current balance is not quite right and that regulation is too heav...
Jim Murphy | 471 c1027 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the hon. Gentleman does not mind my saying that I agree with the basic premise of some o...
Jim Murphy | 471 c1026-7 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to fulfil my regular slot winding up our short debate. [Hon. Members: ““Too short””] ...
David Gauke | 471 c1026 (Link to this contribution) I hope that my hon. Friend will forgive me for not giving way. I need to complete one or two remarks...
David Gauke | 471 c1026 (Link to this contribution) The difficulty that Labour Members have when they make that argument is that the European Court of J...
Rob Marris | 471 c1025-6 (Link to this contribution) I have said that I want free and open competition, but I do not like the word ““distorted””. Were no...
David Gauke | 471 c1025 (Link to this contribution) I do not have much time, but I shall briefly give way to the hon. Gentleman. Does he support free an...
Chris Ruane | 471 c1028 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend mentioned that there are parts of Europe that have not benefited as much as they shou...
Jim Murphy | 471 c1028 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend talks with great experience in such matters and the issue of the previous Government'...
Jim Murphy | 471 c1029 (Link to this contribution) The Lisbon treaty makes a stronger, clearer statement than ever before about the role of national Go...
Frank Dobson | 471 c1028 (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister telling us that the Lisbon treaty sets aside the ECJ's Watts decision? If it does, I...
Jim Murphy | 471 c1028 (Link to this contribution) I am well aware of the ferries in my hon. Friend's constituency. I look forward to travelling on one...
Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 471 c1028 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will have listened to the debate and will be aware of the concerns that have been rai...
James Clappison | 471 c985 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State has been very generous in giving way. While the provision has been placed in ...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c984-5 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Member for Hertsmere in a few moments, but I am anxious to make some pro...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c984 (Link to this contribution) As I said earlier, the treaty does not make any fundamental changes to the legal basis of the single...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c984 (Link to this contribution) Articles 85 to 93 of the original treaty of Rome in 1957—
Speaker | 471 c984 (Link to this contribution) Order. I must tell the hon. Member for Hertsmere (Mr. Clappison) that it is fairly evident that the ...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c984 (Link to this contribution) If right hon. and hon. Gentlemen will allow me to make some progress, we can return to this issue la...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c983 (Link to this contribution) That is true—[Interruption.] No, it does not lead to a collapse of my argument. The important point ...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c982 (Link to this contribution) I certainly believe that we need to press ahead with reforms in that area. My right hon. Friends the...
Rob Marris | 471 c982 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend rightly refers to an increasingly competitive global economy. Will he confirm t...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c983 (Link to this contribution) I am making a point about the virtue of qualified majority voting, whereas the right hon. Gentleman ...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 471 c983 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State confirm that in the European constitutional convention, the UK Governmen...
David Heathcoat-Amory | 471 c983 (Link to this contribution) Does the Secretary of State agree with Commissioner Verheugen's estimate in October 2006 that the co...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 471 c992 (Link to this contribution) I will in a moment, but I want to make a little progress first, to try to avoid the trap that the Se...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c990 (Link to this contribution) He is another of them. They have all made it clear that they want us to withdraw from the European U...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 471 c991-2 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move to leave out from ““House”” to end and to insert instead thereof:"““disapproves of the...
Ian Lucas | 471 c992 (Link to this contribution) Article 3, paragraph 3 of the consolidated treaty states:"““The Union shall establish an internal ma...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 471 c992 (Link to this contribution) I did not hear the word ““competitive”” in what the hon. Gentleman read out. I know he is a lawyer, ...
Sion Simon | 471 c992 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Bob Spink | 471 c990 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State referred to services, and I will come to those in a moment, but the point is ...
Speaker | 471 c990 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I say gently to the Secretary of State that using such words as ““lot””, ““characters”” a...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c989-90 (Link to this contribution) Some of the issues have already been addressed in the European Court of Justice in recent litigation...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c987-9 (Link to this contribution) I always try hard to say yes to the right hon. Gentleman. His remarks, however, are principally abou...
Adam Price | 471 c989 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State referred to the services directive, which applies to private sector services....
Lord Lilley | 471 c987 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State says that he will take no account of any of our proposals. Would it not benef...
Paul Farrelly | 471 c986 (Link to this contribution) On the social dimension, may I record my disappointment, and that of many of my colleagues, at the w...
Judy Mallaber | 471 c986 (Link to this contribution) Preventing countries from competing unfairly by allowing their workers to be exploited is a key elem...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c986 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point. We have stood up consistently, along with oth...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c978 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That this House approves the Government's policy towards the Treaty of Lisbon in resp...
William Cash | 471 c978 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State just used the term ““common market””, but does he accept that that is not the...
Speaker | 471 c978 (Link to this contribution) I inform the House that I have selected the amendment in the name of the right hon. Member for Richm...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c979 (Link to this contribution) No, it does not do any of those things—
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c979 (Link to this contribution) No, there is no weakening of the competitive framework of European Union law at all, and if that is ...
Lord Deben | 471 c979-80 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that Baroness Thatcher fought for qualified majority voting prec...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c980 (Link to this contribution) This is a strange debate, but I agree with everything that the right hon. Gentleman has just said. M...
Ian Lucas | 471 c980 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that one of the essential components of a strong and effective singl...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c980 (Link to this contribution) I do agree with that. Although this issue is not the direct subject of our debate on the single mark...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c981 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to put a figure on that, for obvious reasons. [Hon. Members: ““Very obvious reasons.”...
Peter Bone | 471 c981 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c981 (Link to this contribution) That is a strong and obviously correct point, which is why we particularly welcome the response to t...
Keith Vaz | 471 c981 (Link to this contribution) To take the Secretary of State back to the substance of this debate, which is on the single market, ...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c981 (Link to this contribution) No. We are talking about the single market today, so perhaps I can help the hon. Member for Hertsme...
Peter Bone | 471 c982 (Link to this contribution) I think that I understand the Secretary of State's very cogent argument. He says that we want to be ...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c982 (Link to this contribution) We have set out our position on the euro on many occasions, and the position has not changed in rela...
James Clappison | 471 c981 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Mark Todd | 471 c982 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend has indeed made a cogent argument on the power of the single market and our pro...
William Cash | 471 c1027 (Link to this contribution) We have not heard one word about China or India in the course of the debate so far. How can we compe...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c990-1 (Link to this contribution) I accept your admonition, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I was trying to say that they were very interesting ch...
James Clappison | 471 c981 (Link to this contribution) In order to set the Secretary of State's remarks in context, will he give us his estimate of what pr...
Lord Deben | 471 c1010-1 (Link to this contribution) We have to be very careful about being curmudgeonly about the European Union. The truth is that we a...
Doug Henderson | 471 c995 (Link to this contribution) I think I followed the hon. Gentleman's argument. He says that he wants unfettered free competition—...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c985-6 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Gentleman has studied carefully the consolidated text of the treaty, and he ...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c986-7 (Link to this contribution) We certainly do not oppose the principle of equal treatment, as we have repeatedly made clear over a...
Frank Dobson | 471 c1007 (Link to this contribution) If someone buys a house in Europe, they are spending their own money. If someone gets NHS treatment ...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c982 (Link to this contribution) I agree absolutely. The single market has been an evolutionary concept. We have made significant pro...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c978-9 (Link to this contribution) If hon. Gentleman will let me make my speech, I shall try to make the point in my own way. I am talk...
Mark Harper | 471 c979 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the Secretary of State about the importance of competition and the market, but why is t...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 471 c981-2 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to give way to the hon. Gentleman now—perhaps I will do so later—because this is a sh...
Lord Deben | 471 c1011 (Link to this contribution) I have always believed that courts have to make decisions on the facts put before them; the bits tha...
Subjects
Competition
European Union
EU internal trade
EU integration
EU institutions
Treaties
European Commission
Treaty of Lisbon
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