UK Parliament / Open data

Children and Adoption Bill (HL)

Debate on bills on Thursday, 2 March 2006, in the House of Commons, led by Baroness Hughes of Stretford. The answering member was Tim Loughton.
Children and Adoption Bill (HL). Second reading debate. Agreed to on question. Programme motion for proceedings in Committee, on Report and Third reading agreed to on question (formal). Money resolution agreed to on question (formal).
Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
443 c417-95 
Session
2005-06
Department
Department for Education and Skills
Legislative stage
Second reading
Procedure
Programme motions
Money resolutions
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Children and Adoption Bill (HL). Brought from the Lords. Explanatory Notes Bill 96-EN also published.
Wednesday, 30 November 2005
Bills
House of Commons
Family justice: the operation of the family courts. Government response to the Constitutional Affairs Select Committee fourth report (HC 116).
Thursday, 24 March 2005
Command papers
House of Commons
Draft Children (Contact) and Adoption Bill session 2004/05. Government reply to the first report from the Children (Contact) and Adoption Draft Bill Joint Select Committee (HC 400 2004/05).
Wednesday, 8 June 2005
Command papers
House of Commons
Family justice: the operation of the family courts. Constitutional Affairs Select Committee fourth report in two volumes with proceedings, evidence (HC 116 i-iv not printed separately) and appendices.
Wednesday, 23 February 2005
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons

Show all related items (6)
Legislative scrutiny : second progress report. Human Rights Joint Select Committee fifth report .
Wednesday, 7 December 2005
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Peter Bone | 443 c419 (Link to this contribution) In my constituency, we have some contact centres that are run by the voluntary sector. They have som...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c419 (Link to this contribution) That is not the case. Much of the money that I mentioned is going to local level. Contact centres fo...

Show all contributions (147)
Sally Keeble | 443 c418-9 (Link to this contribution) As my right hon. Friend knows, in the most difficult cases, the court will make orders for supervise...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c419 (Link to this contribution) I agree. We need to think creatively about how we can extend provision both for unsupervised and sup...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 443 c418 (Link to this contribution) I thank my right hon. Friend for what she has just said.
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c418 (Link to this contribution) I can only thank my right hon. Friend for thanking me. That was a most straightforward intervention....
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 443 c417 (Link to this contribution) I welcome what my hon. Friend is saying, but does she accept that one of the huge costs of the separ...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c417-8 (Link to this contribution) I am aware of my right hon. Friend’s considerable expertise and commitment to ensuring that our arra...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c417 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. I hope that we can all welcome the Bill. It...
Margaret Moran | 443 c419 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend accept that many of the contact centres that have received Government fund...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c426 (Link to this contribution) Those cases would come back to court and it would be up to the court to decide what further action n...
Andrew Selous | 443 c426 (Link to this contribution) May I take the Minister back to clause 4? I am not clear in my own mind. Let us say that a parent wi...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c425-6 (Link to this contribution) The point of view that I set out certainly was expressed in the other place, and that may happen aga...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 443 c425 (Link to this contribution) I agree with most of what the Minister has said, but I have read the Hansard report of the debate in...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c426 (Link to this contribution) I believe that it will, and for this reason specifically. I am aware that some women find it difficu...
Sally Keeble | 443 c426 (Link to this contribution) Having had a look at clause 7, may I ask whether those considerations would also apply to breaches o...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c424-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. and learned Friend will know better than I that the courts already have the power to vary th...
Vera Baird | 443 c424 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Minister is very generous in giving way, although I think that she is getting bor...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c424 (Link to this contribution) I hope that my hon. Friend will bear with me, as I shall come to that important point in a moment. I...
Sally Keeble | 443 c424 (Link to this contribution) : When assessments for contact orders are made or breaches of contact considered, will my right hon....
Tim Loughton | 443 c429-30 (Link to this contribution) There must have been some confusion, because the understanding of our Whips was for four days. I hop...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c429 (Link to this contribution) It is my understanding that the programme motion was agreed through the usual channels. Ministers ar...
Tim Loughton | 443 c430 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Lady has already mentioned contempt of court, which is one penalty that can be ...
Vera Baird | 443 c430 (Link to this contribution) I am anxious to probe what the hon. Gentleman means and what sort of strong steer he thinks should b...
Vera Baird | 443 c430 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the hon. Gentleman finds this attempt to clarify the questions as helpful as I do. If my...
Vera Baird | 443 c426-7 (Link to this contribution) Of course, that would be the ordinary thing to do, but I do not think that the Bill requires that a ...
Sally Keeble | 443 c428 (Link to this contribution) I have pressed my right hon. Friend often on the private fostering of children, in particular those ...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c427-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. and learned Friend distinguishes two points. There is a requirement that the risk assessment...
Tim Loughton | 443 c429 (Link to this contribution) This is yet another Bill with ““children”” in the title, and is not to be confused with the Adoption...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c428-9 (Link to this contribution) I know that the issue is of great concern to my hon. Friend, and I share that concern, but she is st...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c421 (Link to this contribution) I agree that the hon. Gentleman should have received those evaluations, and it was our expectation t...
Tim Loughton | 443 c421 (Link to this contribution) That is not very helpful to the House. If the Minister thinks that vital information that is germane...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c421 (Link to this contribution) Although the project finished a few months ago, we received the evaluations only very recently. Inde...
Tim Loughton | 443 c421 (Link to this contribution) Did I hear the Minister say that she is publishing today the findings of the family resolutions pilo...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c420-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman raises a fundamental point. The model and culture in this country has been based ...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 443 c420 (Link to this contribution) I listened very carefully to the right hon. Lady’s opening remarks and the lesson to be learned from...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c420 (Link to this contribution) My hon. and learned Friend raises an important point that we are considering actively. We are piloti...
Vera Baird | 443 c420 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, the ability to refer to such groups is valuable and can help in the most difficult cases, b...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c419-20 (Link to this contribution) I take my hon. Friend’s point. The role that staff play in those situations, particularly for superv...
Tim Loughton | 443 c423 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for giving away again, but we need to tease out some detail, although ...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c423 (Link to this contribution) I do not have the figures to answer the hon. Gentleman’s first question, but I shall give them to hi...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c423-4 (Link to this contribution) The court will consider all the circumstances of each case. If a compensation order for a certain am...
Annette Brooke | 443 c422 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister clarify the following point, which I may not have understood fully? On enforcement...
Tim Loughton | 443 c423 (Link to this contribution) I have two questions for the Minister. First, how many breaches of contact orders have resulted in t...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c423 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is to some extent confusing contact activities with the responses that a court can mak...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c421 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the hon. Lady, as well, and I shall certainly investigate the reason why the evaluati...
Speaker | 443 c422 (Link to this contribution) Order. While I can well understand hon. Members’ desire to see those reports, it is outside the remi...
Lord Pickles | 443 c421-2 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Would it not help the good conduct of our deliberations i...
Tim Loughton | 443 c437 (Link to this contribution) With the greatest respect to the hon. Lady, I think that she is wrong. She is factually wrong on the...
David Kidney | 443 c437 (Link to this contribution) I will help the hon. Gentleman to move on from that little spat. I am attracted to much of what he h...
Tim Loughton | 443 c436-7 (Link to this contribution) I do not agree with the findings of that report, which was based on a rather small sample. The findi...
Annette Brooke | 443 c437 (Link to this contribution) : Does the hon. Gentleman concede that that very unpleasant debate was held before the publication o...
Tim Loughton | 443 c437-8 (Link to this contribution) I want to make some progress, but will come back to the hon. and learned Lady, too. Our proposals h...
Maria Eagle | 443 c438 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Tim Loughton | 443 c437 (Link to this contribution) If I may, I will come on to contact—where it all starts—and mediation later in my speech.
Tim Loughton | 443 c438 (Link to this contribution) Let me finish and I certainly will. In support of its claim, the NSPCC cites the fact that 29 child...
Maria Eagle | 443 c438 (Link to this contribution) I have no torch to bear for various elements of the lobby, including the NSPCC, but my interpretatio...
Tim Loughton | 443 c431 (Link to this contribution) I have no concerns about clause 7. That is the point that I have just made. I said that including pr...
Tim Loughton | 443 c431 (Link to this contribution) If there is a threat of violence to an ex-partner and his or her children, I entirely agree that a b...
Dari Taylor | 443 c431 (Link to this contribution) Clause 7, the risk assessment provision, is one of the most crucial and difficult parts of the Bill....
Tim Loughton | 443 c430 (Link to this contribution) I agree that the worst outcome for the parent, and especially for children, is for the parent to end...
Sally Keeble | 443 c431 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that some of us welcome the provision precisely because we have had t...
Tim Loughton | 443 c433 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right. Indeed, my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough (Mr. Jackson) held a...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 443 c433 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend comment on the practice that obtains in respect of the existing statutory duty u...
Tim Loughton | 443 c431-2 (Link to this contribution) I had better make some progress, otherwise I shall speak for even longer than the Minister, which wi...
David Kidney | 443 c432-3 (Link to this contribution) I can reinforce the hon. Gentleman’s last point. Is it his experience, as it is mine, that many gran...
Tim Loughton | 443 c434 (Link to this contribution) I am trying to make progress, but I will give way.
Lord Pickles | 443 c434 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making some very good points, and he should not be upset that we interrupt him bec...
Tim Loughton | 443 c434-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very good point, and I shall briefly refer to a call for greater transparency...
Tim Loughton | 443 c433-4 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very good point. We have heard a number of stories where members of extended ...
Dari Taylor | 443 c434 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman acknowledge that not all contact is effective and nor does it produce a stab...
Tim Loughton | 443 c434 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is right, and I will come in a minute, if I can, to the presumption that the child wil...
Ann Coffey | 443 c435 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that meaningful access does not necessarily mean equal access?
Tim Loughton | 443 c435-6 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I do. There is much research to support the greater role of fathers in the lives of the childr...
Margaret Moran | 443 c436 (Link to this contribution) : The implication of the hon. Gentleman’s argument seems to be that, at present, the majority of cas...
Tim Loughton | 443 c441 (Link to this contribution) For the last time, I will give way. I will then finish. The hon. Lady can then make her own speech.
Dari Taylor | 443 c441 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way again. Does he accept or agree with the Clev...
Tim Loughton | 443 c439-41 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Lady needs to speak to her colleague in the upper House, Baroness Scotland, because, ...
Dari Taylor | 443 c441 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c439 (Link to this contribution) It is for the NSPCC to explain its interpretation of what it has put out in its briefing. The positi...
Tim Loughton | 443 c439 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Lady is misinterpreting what I have said. I have not talked about parental righ...
Vera Baird | 443 c439 (Link to this contribution) I will not tangle with the hon. Gentleman about what the NSPCC says. I can see that he has become ri...
Tim Loughton | 443 c439 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. We should not automatically consider a non-resident parent in some way to b...
Peter Bottomley | 443 c438-9 (Link to this contribution) The NSPCC will have to find another forum to explain why it said what it did, but the Minister has t...
Tim Loughton | 443 c438 (Link to this contribution) The NSPCC has said quite clearly—it has not minced its words—that if our amendments about a presumpt...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 443 c466 (Link to this contribution) Despite her heavy cold, the Minister is as sparky as ever. I was fortunate to secure an Adjournment...
Lord Pickles | 443 c472-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to make a modest contribution to the debate. It is a particular pl...
David Kidney | 443 c477-8 (Link to this contribution) Child contact disputes can be tremendously painful and affect everyone involved in them. They can le...
Vera Baird | 443 c469-71 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry. It is rare for me to be accused of not speaking loudly enough. I referred to and commend...
Tim Loughton | 443 c468 (Link to this contribution) Why are they wrong in America, Australia, Canada and Italy? And how has that wrongness manifested it...
Tim Loughton | 443 c467 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that I am not going to agree with the hon. and learned Lady on this point. Why is this iss...
Vera Baird | 443 c467-8 (Link to this contribution) The explanation why such an approach would undermine the paramountcy principle is straightforward. I...
Annette Brooke | 443 c454-5 (Link to this contribution) I have heard mention of projects in other countries, but have not come across the full, long-term ev...
Ann Coffey | 443 c458-61 (Link to this contribution) I was a member of the Joint Committee that performed the pre-legislative scrutiny of the draft Bill ...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 443 c461-4 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for allowing me to participate in this vital debate, which has been m...
Vera Baird | 443 c464 (Link to this contribution) Why does the hon. Gentleman not tell us how to do it?
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 443 c464-6 (Link to this contribution) : There might be a causal link, given that the Labour party is in Government and the Conservative pa...
Maria Miller | 443 c455 (Link to this contribution) I should be interested to hear the hon. Lady’s views on the fact that 40 per cent. of parents lose c...
Vera Baird | 443 c456 (Link to this contribution) I understand the hon. Lady’s concern, but Resolution is talking about putting a common-sense presump...
Annette Brooke | 443 c456-8 (Link to this contribution) That is my point. The Select Committee concluded that inserting a statement into the welfare checkli...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 443 c454 (Link to this contribution) I am following the hon. Lady’s speech closely. Is she aware of the experience in both the United Sta...
Annette Brooke | 443 c454 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. and learned Lady. I have mentioned twice in that context that safety must be the pr...
Vera Baird | 443 c448-9 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is being used as something of a ping-pong ball by me and the hon. Member for Peterbor...
Margaret Moran | 443 c449 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. and learned Friend for her usual clarity. Opposition Members and those in the other...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 443 c448 (Link to this contribution) I am making a habit of agreeing with the sensible comments made by the hon. and learned Member for R...
Margaret Moran | 443 c448 (Link to this contribution) I am not furnishing all the answers today. I hope that we will all seek greater truth in Committee, ...
Annette Brooke | 443 c453-4 (Link to this contribution) I understand that if both parents are on legal aid mediation will be free, but I am not sure what ha...
Vera Baird | 443 c454 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Lady says, it is wrong to compel people to take part in mediation, but is it not also wr...
Annette Brooke | 443 c449-53 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate Members who have spoken so far on the tone of the debate. We have already had a usefu...
David Kidney | 443 c453 (Link to this contribution) : I strongly support mediation, but who pays for it now and who does the hon. Lady think should pay ...
Vera Baird | 443 c448 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that working out how children’s voices can be heard in court is an urgent ...
Margaret Moran | 443 c448 (Link to this contribution) Those concerns were extensively debated in the proceedings on the 2002 Act. Children’s charities hav...
Margaret Moran | 443 c448 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. and learned Friend. I hope that we will have a detailed discussion on that topi...
Tim Loughton | 443 c441-2 (Link to this contribution) I completely agree. I do not need to say any more. I have been making the point that the hon. Lady h...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 443 c442 (Link to this contribution) : May I echo the point that my hon. Friend is making so eloquently? A reply dated 27 February to a q...
Tim Loughton | 443 c442-4 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has made a very good point. If the measure is to work, the professionals must be give...
Margaret Moran | 443 c444-6 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Minister’s strong support for the principle of paramountcy, particularly in the face o...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 443 c446 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that some children’s charities have already criticised the Bill because the...
Margaret Moran | 443 c446-8 (Link to this contribution) I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman. The representations that I have received state that the Bill...
Simon Burns | 443 c478-9 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, although I am not that much of a newcomer as I have been in the...
David Kidney | 443 c478 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to give way to the newcomer to the debate.
Simon Burns | 443 c478 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
David Kidney | 443 c485 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman remember that a couple of hon. Members spoke about the new children’s centre...
David Kidney | 443 c480-3 (Link to this contribution) The point that I want to pursue in a little while is that the enemies of dissatisfied parents, grand...
Andrew Selous | 443 c480 (Link to this contribution) : In the hon. Gentleman’s experience of cases where such matters come to court, do the courts suffic...
David Kidney | 443 c479-80 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to extend this discussion, but for 20 years I was a practising solicitor in the family...
Simon Burns | 443 c479 (Link to this contribution) I do not know the hon. Gentleman’s background and whether he has ever been put in such a position, b...
David Kidney | 443 c479 (Link to this contribution) I respect the hon. Gentleman’s opinion, if what he has just said is his opinion. However, I profound...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 443 c485 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend support the work of the charity Parent Talk? Last week, I attended an event spec...
Andrew Selous | 443 c485 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right that children’s centres are good forums for support centres for parents,...
Annette Brooke | 443 c486 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will not be surprised to hear that, despite the excellence of the ...
Andrew Selous | 443 c485-6 (Link to this contribution) I do not know that particular charity, but it sounds excellent and I happy to commend it, given what...
Maria Eagle | 443 c492-4 (Link to this contribution) No doubt it is but that is not a matter for me to decide. I congratulate hon. Members on both sides...
Maria Miller | 443 c488-91 (Link to this contribution) We have had a full and wide-ranging debate. We have heard that children everywhere must cope with in...
Andrew Selous | 443 c486-8 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to hear that. The onus is on local community family trusts to try to raise as much money ...
Maria Eagle | 443 c491-2 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Member for Basingstoke (Mrs. Miller) that we have had a very interesting and c...
Baroness Hughes of Stretford | 443 c422 (Link to this contribution) I accept the general point being made and as I said, the documents have been published on the depart...
Vera Baird | 443 c468-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is not comparing like with like. I am unaware of any legal system that includes a...
Annette Brooke | 443 c455-6 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention, but I shall deal with that point in due course as I wan...
Speaker | 443 c469 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am not sure that the hon. and learned Lady’s microphone is working. Until we are sure that ...
Tim Loughton | 443 c448 (Link to this contribution) I have some sympathy with the idea of taking children’s views into account and have cited the exampl...
Andrew Selous | 443 c484-5 (Link to this contribution) May I begin by commending the Minister for Children and Families, my hon. Friend the Member for East...
Annette Brooke | 443 c421 (Link to this contribution) May I endorse the point made by the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton)? I cer...
Vera Baird | 443 c466-7 (Link to this contribution) I was pleased to hear the hon. Member for Peterborough (Mr. Jackson) say that he broadly welcomed th...
Subjects
Access
Children
Compensation
Adoption
CAFCASS
Arbitration
Contact orders
Absent parents
Custody
Enforcement
Domestic abuse
Divorce
Intercountry adoption
Fathers
Grandparents
Family proceedings
Pilot schemes
Protection
Parents
Powers
Safety
Separation
Risk assessment
Contempt of court
Family assistance orders
Family centres
Legislation
Children and Adoption Bill (HL) 2005-06
Link
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