Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill

My Lords, in moving Amendment 9, I wish to speak also to Amendments 10, 11, 12, 20, 40, 42, 43 and 44. All these amendments, which stand in my name and that of the noble Baroness, Lady Stern, follow on from debates held in Committee. None challenges what I think is fashionably called the architecture of the Bill. All seek to ensure that within the framework of the Bill, and without harming the effectiveness of measures, TPIMs have regard to their impact on the individual, who has not been charged, let alone found guilty of any offence—in other words, under our legal system, he is innocent—and on his family. I have spoken previously about the need to recognise the individual person at the centre of any proposed measure. This is a matter of human responsibility. The restrictions imposed through control orders have been very considerable and in some cases very damaging. I acknowledge and welcome the Government’s efforts to reduce the restrictions and to write legislation in a different way, spelling out the limits of restrictions, but there is still potential for a lot of damage. I suspect that, to an extent, this may depend on how a particular measure is applied. I welcome the assurances that the Minister gave at the previous stage but wish to pursue a number of matters a little further. I mentioned the individual but, of course—the noble Lord, Lord Newton of Braintree, mentioned this—it is also a question of the individual’s family. It is difficult to imagine the impact of such a measure on children, wives—I have heard of at least one wife who has attempted suicide more than once—and the community in the widest sense. This aspect is in my mind directed also at the effectiveness of TPIMs in avoiding taking measures that may tip the individual, his more extended family, friends, acquaintances and associates into the very sort of action which the Bill seeks to prevent. There are restrictions on association and communication and I worry that they could have that effect. Amendment 9, which would leave out the words ““or area””, is to probe what might be an area of a specified description. Presumably it is not a place specified by geographical co-ordinates, nor somewhere like Manchester city centre, as they will be covered elsewhere in paragraph 3(1)(a). Nor is it somewhere like an internet café or an airport which one could understand the Government would want to see restricted, because they are places, not areas, and so would fall under the other paragraph. Could an area of a specified description be a city centre? That seems very wide, so I am asking for clarification of this term and how the restriction might be applied. Can the Minister also give an assurance that the exclusion would not be of a huge geographical scope? I welcome an exclusion measure which is this way round, instead of listing the places at which an individual can visit and excluding the rest, but nevertheless I would like to be a little clearer about this provision. Amendment 10 would leave out from paragraph 4(2)(a) of Schedule 1 the term ““specified measures”” and insert, "““measures specified under this Act””." This was an amendment which I tabled in Committee but I think both the Minister and I overlooked the fact that it had not had an answer, and I am grateful to him for contacting me in the interim. However I think that an explanation of the term should be on the record, and that what I have understood as being measures specified under this Act is in fact what is meant. In Amendment 11 there is an exception for a financial adviser. It occurred to me that other professionals might hold funds belonging to the individual—a solicitor might hold money in a client account—so can the Minister tell the House how this will be dealt with? There is a provision for a specified value threshold so I suppose that could be used to cover monies held by a professional such as a solicitor, but again I would welcome an explanation. Finally in this group, Amendment 12 probes what is meant by ““specified descriptions of persons””. The more I thought about it, the less clear I was as to who these might be. They could be members of a proscribed organisation but they would be covered by other legislation. Presumably we are not talking about worshippers at a particular place of worship, nor would we be talking about people outside the UK, because as I read in paragraphs 8(2)(b) and 8(2)(c) of Schedule 1, they would be covered elsewhere. Can the Minister help me as to that provision? I apologise to noble Lords that there is quite a lot a detail, which comes of large groupings, but the Whips always encourage us to group robustly. Amendment 20 would seek an assurance that all the circumstances to which the amendment applies are implicit in the Bill as drafted. We are dealing here with Condition D in which I say there should be, "““regard to all the circumstances””." Condition D is about specified measures and I would like to be assured that what is necessary within the condition means that there will be proper consideration of the individual and his family circumstances and his likely reaction. I do not mean just irritation, I mean reaction in a much more substantial sense. Following on from my amendment at the last stage about mental health review, I turn to a different approach. Amendment 40 provides for a general review group. In Committee, the Minister referred to the current Control Order Review Group which he said, "““is likely to continue in relation to TPIMs””.—[Official Report, 19/10/11; col. 346.]" I think it should be a statutory provision, and I hope that the Minister can take the opportunity to explain what is planned. I have assumed that the review group will be responsible to the Secretary of State with a regular reporting function. I have not attempted to spell out its remit other than to assist in the Secretary of State’s functions, because I think those functions are clear. Clause 11 requires her to keep Conditions C and D under review, but I would welcome an assurance about monitoring the impact of TPIMs to ensure they remain necessary and in proportion to the assessments, both of the individual and of the intelligence as to the security situation in general. I have seen the terms of reference for the current Control Order Review Group which includes having to consider whether the orders are effectively disrupting an individual’s terrorism-related behaviour and the risk posed by that individual, and whether there are other options for managing or reducing the risk posed by the individual. I welcome those and I hope that those can be replicated under the new arrangements. Finally—noble Lords may be relieved to know—Amendments 42, 43 and 44, which should be read together, will provide for independent oversight of individual measures. They are quite deliberately modelled on the Independent Police Complaints Commission because that seemed to the noble Baroness, Lady Stern, and me to be a good model for independent review. These provisions are actually lifted from the Police Reform Act 2002, although they are not as extensive. I decided not to test your Lordships’ patience by adding the detailed schedules which will be needed for operation. The IPPC reacts to complaints but it is essentially established to review, and because of that power, to prevent potential abuses of power, hence this proposal. Appointees would be independent. I have excluded particular current and past office holders, and most importantly would have experience as well as appropriate formal qualifications, specifically in the care of persons deprived of their liberty and their families. There is a body of experience in how someone behaves in such circumstances. We should be aware that individuals may have been deprived of their liberty and indeed may have been tortured before the TPIM is applied. Controlees have included people who have been subjected to very extreme treatment overseas and that can result, to give one example, in an inability to engage in a discussion and to articulate the problems suffered by that individual. Amendment 43 deals with the functions of such a commission. It would provide for treatment and specialist services, because this is a special category of people. I do not believe that an ordinary GP or indeed a psychologist or psychiatrist without such a specialism would have the necessary skills or experience. Amendment 44 would require regular reporting both to the Secretary of State and generally. During debate on the predecessor amendment at the last stage, the Minister said that case law on control orders and the duty of the Secretary of State to act within the convention rights mean that the impact of measures will be given appropriate consideration. I believe that we should look for something specific because we could avoid the very expensive court proceedings which we experience with control orders, because such proceedings are after the event and because this level of supervision is, in my view, right. I beg to move.