Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill

My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendments 10 to 15. These are all amendments to the first schedule to the Bill which deals with measures—in other words, how the measures are administered. I am not seeking, and will not at any stage seek during the debate, to argue against the Government’s responsibility to protect their citizens, which is necessarily complex, nor indeed to disrupt activity—““disrupt”” is the term the Minister used. However, I do argue that there may be different ways and means. I wish to bring the Committee back to the issue of how one deals with the individual at the centre of all this and his or her family; to the possibility of tipping people, including in the wider community because these matters get known about, over into the very activity that we are seeking to prevent; and to the person that we will have at the end of the year or two years. I am well aware that my drafting if often more suited to a contract than a piece of legislation but I cannot help it. I was a solicitor in practice for even longer than I have been in the House. It may be that the answer to a number of my amendments is that the Human Rights Act deals with them but I will take a short time to raise the specific issues in the House. Amendment 9 deals with the hours that an individual is required to be at his residence, suggesting that an overnight requirement should be for such reasonable hours as are specified. We know that a period of 16 hours is compliant with human rights but a requirement to be at homes for 16 hours—effectively, an early evening curfew—does not sit easily with the desirability of allowing the individual to work or study. An early evening curfew would, for instance, preclude working in the restaurant trade. Indeed, having to be at home for 16 hours would probably make it impossible to carry out any sort of normal work. Some people work from nine to five but we forget that they have to get there by nine and leave after five. That is more than the eight hours which is 24 minus 16. That is my first amendment. Amendment 10 is on the question of location. The Secretary of State can require the individual to reside at a locality with which they have ““a connection””. My amendment suggests changing that to ““a substantial connection””. ““A connection”” could be a very slight one. Maybe ““significant connection”” would be better. That would be a slightly lower test than a substantial one. To take a deliberately absurd example, I would like to avoid sending an urban person off to the Yorkshire Dales, however beautiful, because Mrs Smith who used to work in his local shop has retired there. That would be a connection but not a very sensible one in this context. Amendment 11 is on the terms of occupancy of a specified residence. Paragraph 1 in the schedule allows the Secretary of State to, "““require the individual to comply with any specified terms of occupancy of that residence””." At first, I wondered whether this should be a third party’s terms of residence but the residence may be one provided by the Secretary of State. Pointing to a lease or tenancy agreement would be a more satisfactory way of doing that. That is alluded to but only as one of a number of possibilities. I assume that ““specified”” means specified by the Secretary of the State. Again, the Secretary of State might be tempted to go beyond the bounds of what one would naturally expect through this paragraph, but be permitted to do so. Amendment 12 takes us to travel documents. As I have said, the documents—in particular the document referred to in paragraph 2(3)(d)—should be returned to the individual at his reasonable request. I am not proposing that a passport that has been surrendered should be handed back but, reading this, it occurred to me that a Freedom Pass, which allows an individual over a certain age to travel by bus for free throughout England, would fall within this category. Is it right to tell that individual that they cannot have their freedom pass which would allow them to get to, say, their niece’s wedding? Perhaps that is a bad example because attending a family wedding may raise other issues but I am not sure that this deals with that detailed sort of situation. I would like to see something put in place to permit for individual and very detailed requirements. Amendment 13 takes us to paragraph 4 of the schedule, where a constable can give directions for the purpose of securing compliance with ““specified measures””. That seems a very wide phrase in this context so I suggest the words, "““measures specified under this Act””." Amendment 14 deals with paragraph 9, on work and study. The individual may be required, "““to comply with other specified conditions””." I am not challenging the exclusion of certain work or study: learning how to make explosives or working as an engineer have been referred to as examples. Yet work is an important component in the self-respect of any individual. The self-respect of the individuals that we are talking about here—and that of their families—is a particular issue. Again, I seek a way of writing reasonableness into these measures. That is very much behind my thinking in my final amendment, Amendment 15, on paragraph 10 and the reporting measures. I have heard of occasions under the current system where a controlee was required to report at a time of day that made work or study impossible. The individual is required to report to a police station, "““at the time and in the manner so required””." I take it that that is in person. He will not be able to say to a prospective employer, ““I need to nip out every day””—or twice a week or whatever it is—““at quarter to 12 to get to a police station which may not be very convenient. I will be away for an hour or two. I cannot quite take it as my lunch hour because it will take longer than that””. If that is at the wrong time of day, it makes certain work impossible. Though these may seem at first sight to be things that we should not have to look at in legislation, we are always looking at how measures might work in practice and how legislation might be used. I have said already today that these measures are very stringent. An awful lot will depend on precisely how they are applied. I hope that I can be given some assurances, either on the wording or on the wording not being necessary, by my noble friend on the Front Bench. I beg to move.