Localism Bill

My Lords, in the daily horoscopes sometimes I am a Virgo and sometimes a Librarian. Today I shall be a Librarian because they are hugely well balanced and see both sides of any discussion. That is precisely the position that I am in today. It has been a very helpful discussion with, as so often, real feelings behind it. From the outset, I shall say that I hear what everybody has to say about this. I may not be able to provide a definitive answer by the end but we are getting nearer to one. The balancing act here is to do with the question of a definition. The noble Lord, Lord Howarth, put his finger on it: the more you define it, the more trouble you get into legally. This is something that we have to take into account. Indeed, what we have also learnt from the debate is that there are potentially still extras that people would like to put into the definition. I fully see why and accept the wish of the right reverend Prelate to see spirituality included, and what the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, said about culture and heritage. I hear what my noble friend Lord Cormack says about the importance of development enhancing. However, with this we begin to string out a lot of things that sustainable development is meant to cover. This is a difficulty that perhaps both Governments have had over the period. We all believe in sustainability. We can all define it to our own satisfaction, but the question is whether through that definition you end up in a legal minefield. The comments and speeches today have been very helpful in that regard and will certainly take us forward. The first thing that I want to say is that we support the principle that planning should promote sustainable development. Indeed, it is central to the approach that we have taken in the draft national planning policy framework. The framework, as presently structured, makes it clear that planning has three pillars: the environmental, the economic and the social. Those are the three pillars that contribute most to a planning decision. We fully recognise that we have to balance those three elements. Secondly, we also believe that the objective of sustainable development is appropriate for statute. There is already a duty on those preparing local plans to do so with the objective of contributing to the achievement of sustainable development. That is already the situation. The Bill will introduce a new duty to co-operate in relation to planning for sustainable development, which will ensure that councils and other public bodies co-operate effectively on strategic planning matters, including sustainable development. Our Amendment 210D, which I will move formally at the end, would extend this principle to neighbourhood planning by placing on all neighbourhood planning proposals an explicit condition relating to sustainable development. This ensures that the principle of sustainable development runs through all levels of plan-making—strategic, local and neighbourhood. Thirdly, I understand the desire to ensure that there is clarity and consistency in the meaning of sustainable development. We have heard this afternoon how difficult that is to achieve. Everybody sees just another little gate that they might open to put forward something that they feel strongly about. I recognise that there are strong views and, as I said at the beginning, I have heard clearly what has been said. I shall ask that we reflect on that when I come to the end. We made it clear in the February statement on mainstreaming sustainable development—a document that has already been referred to—that we recognise that sustainable development must embrace the needs of the economy, society and the natural environment, alongside the use of good governance and sound science. All those have already been identified by noble Lords. As the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, pointed out, these are the 2005 sustainable development strategy statements, which continue to provide the starting point for how we think about these issues. They are important and widely agreed principles, and, as I said, we need to reflect on them. I say again that I have considerable sympathy with the intentions of noble Lords in tabling Amendment 203K and with those who have spoken. At the same time, I am concerned that putting this amendment on the face of the Bill could give rise to the sort of significant, although perhaps unintended, consequences that the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, and others have already mentioned. Indeed, my noble friend Lord Jenkin, in wise words, said how difficult it is to provide a long-term definition and one which will be, if we put it no lower, sustainable. I think that, whatever we do and however we approach this, it has to be recognised that the definition will be high level, otherwise we will spend more time in the courts that anyone would care to think about. The amendment would introduce an extremely broad new duty applying to any function under any Act relating to planning. This would mean that individual planning applications would be caught. Therefore, every decision-maker, on every decision, however small, would need to show how they had sought to promote sustainable development. Not only could that result in a disproportionate amount of box-ticking to avoid the risk of challenge to decisions but it would tie up planning committees for hours while they tried to sort out whether the plan achieved sustainable development. As we see the situation at the moment, we believe that the right place to enshrine the objective of sustainable development is in plans—that is, not individual plans but local development plans, national framework plans and so on. It is the plan-led system that we all value. It is the one that people all agree on, it is the one that goes out to consultation and it is the one that is used to weigh up applications and integrate different goals. It is also the local plan which sets the framework within which individual planning applications are assessed. That is why we think that our Amendment 210D is important. In defining sustainable development—we have had a lot of discussion about this—we must be careful that, in seeking to capture the key elements, we do not define it to such a degree that we either dilute that essential core or impose requirements that it would be difficult or impossible to meet through the planning system. I keep emphasising ““planning system”” because some of the pillars that have already been identified in 2005 are generic—they go right across our departments—and they do not specifically relate to value. Apparently the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, felt that they could. However, I think that there is a discussion to be had about whether they can. My noble friend Lord Deben also raised a concern about definitions. I like the fact that he and, a little earlier, Prime Minister Major did ““sustainable”” and ““development””. That is a good matter to have had clarified today. I worry somewhat about the amount of detail with which the amendment defines sustainable development and whether all the tests would have to be met in each and every application. How, for example, would someone assessing an application for a small extension to a house—a loft extension, for example—make sure that it was sustainable in terms of any definition? We have to look at those aspects. I believe that the essential point in applying sustainable development to planning is to meet the social, economic and environmental needs of the present, in a balanced way. I say ““of the present”” because I agree that trying to plan for the future is pretty difficult. The noble Lord, Lord Lucas, suggested that we have trouble getting from one day to the next without worrying about what will happen in 10 years’ time. We do not want to compromise the ability of future generations to meet their own needs, which may be entirely different from our own. While I have real concerns that this amendment could have significant unintended consequences, I am not unsympathetic to its intent. We want to make sure that our commitment to securing sustainable development through planning is absolutely clear. I ask the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, not to press the amendment today, even if he intended to do so. I undertake to take the matter away and come back with the Government’s view on whether there is any way we can put sustainable development on the face of the Bill or whether, taking account of what the consultation on the draft national framework may say, it is more appropriate to include it in there. I am not promising that the Government will do either but I assure the House that I will take the matter away and come back with a response before Third Reading so that if more discussion is needed at Third Reading it can take place, as the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, pointed out. I hope noble Lords will accept that as a genuine offer in view of the points that have been made. We will try to put flesh on the bones with regard to this matter. As everybody knows, the consultation on the national planning policy framework has not yet closed and I cannot therefore prejudice what will be in it. I believe that 10,000 responses to it have been received so far, which will have to be gone through. We are also going to have two further debates on the national planning policy framework. I was surprised to discover that one will be held tomorrow, particularly as we may well have finished this part of the Bill by then. However, I am looking forward to it. There are 16 speakers. The Government anticipated the House’s desire to talk about the national planning policy framework and have tabled their own debate for 27 October. Therefore, if anybody says by the end of these debates that they do not know anything about the national planning policy framework, I simply will not believe them. As I say, I will take the measure away and come back. What we have to try to balance here is the desirability of having a definition with the consequences of the legal aspects, which can be a potential minefield. I ask the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, not to press the amendment.