Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill

My Lords, this has been a serious debate, for which I am grateful. When my noble friend Lord Bradshaw talked about hacking in the garden, I thought that he would mention pulling things up by the roots, but perhaps I should not pursue that. I believe that his reference to meetings concerned an earlier regime—I am not sure whether that is quite the right term—but certainly before the noble Baroness took up her ministerial office. I am grateful to her for her offer to hold discussions throughout the passage of the Bill. I take very seriously the issue of certainty, which has been raised. I accept that the problem of uncertainty is inherent in the proposal for piloting or trialling. There is certainty and uncertainty on the one hand, and on the other there is getting it right—that is the dilemma we are in—and making sure that there are proper checks and balances, as the noble Lord, Lord Dear, said. The coalition programme for government refers to ““strict”” checks and balances. I do not want to take the time of the Committee by going through all the useful comments that have been made. However, I cannot resist picking up on what that the noble Baroness, Lady Henig, said about one-topic elections. That is the problem, although possibly not in the way she presented it. Local issues are so often subsumed to national issues and we have one-topic elections, but not perhaps in the way that the noble Baroness meant. As for the Minister’s response, I, too, checked the crime map for my area. I would have been more hesitant in doing so if I had thought it might be held against me in some way. All forces are indeed different, but they have some common characteristics, which are the ones we should look at. In conclusion, I am a little disappointed, and it may be that the Minister has been unable to think of another alternative. She does not seem to have answered my question: can the Government find another way of testing, assessing and evaluating the model? It may be that we can continue to discuss this issue, because there must be evaluation and a reaction to what one finds from that evaluation. In that hope, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 26 withdrawn. Amendments 28 and 29 not moved. Amendment 30 Moved by