Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill

My Lords, before I respond to the debate that we have just had regarding the issue of pilots, it might help the House if I clarified the position regarding policing in Wales, which was spoken to by the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan. Within this group of amendments, and a number of subsequent groups which we hope to debate later today, there are specific amendments that address matters of devolution and I dare say seek to probe the Government's negotiations with the Welsh Assembly Government. I am aware that there was not enough time at Report and Third Reading in the other place to debate the specific provisions within this Bill that had to be amended as a result of the failed legislative consent Motion. I therefore feel it is appropriate to set out publicly and on the record the narrative behind these provisions and, I hope, avoid any misunderstanding of the Government’s position. I am grateful to noble Lords who have tabled amendments that will provide me with this opportunity. The Government have worked hard to try to secure a negotiated solution specific for Wales in the spirit of the devolution settlement. I must emphasise at the outset that policing is a reserved matter under the devolution settlement. However, there are related matters that are devolved. At the start of the planning for this reform in government, Ministers in the Home Office sought, and entered into, early engagement with the Welsh Assembly Government at both ministerial and official level. Their intention was to discuss how the Bill would apply in Wales and how it could respect those devolved institutions. On a number of occasions throughout the Bill’s development, the Home Secretary and the Policing Minister met the Welsh Assembly Government's Minister for Social Justice and Local Government, Carl Sargeant, who was reappointed earlier this month to the same ministerial portfolio. Indeed, the Policing Minister also made visits to Cardiff to speak to the Welsh Assembly Minister and his officials to address directly the concerns of the Welsh Assembly Government and the Members in the National Assembly for Wales. From the outset, the Government acknowledged that the Welsh Assembly Government were opposed in principle to the abolition of police authorities in Wales and against the proposal to replace them with directly elected police and crime commissioners. However, the UK Government, including the Secretary of State for Wales, remained firm in their opinion that it is not in the interests of the people of Wales to have a different governance and scrutiny structure for their forces. Our reason is quite simple: there cannot be two models of governance for a police service whose officers and assets so regularly cross the regional boundary between England and Wales in pursuit of making our communities safer and tackling crime. The Welsh Assembly Government recognised this position and, while they do not agree with it, continued to respect the fact that policing remains a reserved matter to the Government in Westminster. When the original Bill entered the other place there were certain elements which affected the legislative competence of the National Assembly for Wales. Specifically, this was with regard to the provision for police and crime panels to be formed and maintained by the local authorities in the police area. As noble Lords will be aware, the Welsh National Assembly has legislative competence over oversight and scrutiny committees of local authorities. Therefore, in respecting the devolution settlement, the Government agreed with the view of the Welsh Assembly Government that the consent of the Assembly would be required to legislate on establishing police and crime panels in the form set out in the original Bill. In addition, the Government recognised the unique political landscape within Wales which had not, until this Government came into office, been formally recognised within policing governance structures in Wales since devolution. My ministerial colleagues in the Home Office and the Cabinet sought to address this by offering the Welsh Assembly Government the power to appoint a representative to the police and crime panels within Wales and to afford that member full voting rights. Furthermore, due to the unique funding stream that the Welsh Assembly Government afford to community safety partnerships and the legislative competence over social justice and community engagement, the Government offered provision for police and crime panels in Wales to have an additional veto to those in England. This veto would have enabled the panel to require the PCC to come to it for its consent if the PCC intended to merge community safety partnerships in Wales or require them to submit a report. This not only protected the policy and financial interests of the Welsh Assembly Government but fostered a stronger working relationship between the PCC and the Government in Cardiff, via the panel. The Welsh Assembly Government proposed a Motion to the Assembly to support the Government's negotiated solution in respect of the status of police and crime panels but it was defeated. It is regrettable that the then Government in Cardiff abstained from a vote that, if passed, would have strengthened their voice within policing governance. Nevertheless, the Government have respected the decision of the Assembly and have therefore amended the Bill to give the Secretary of State, rather than local authorities, the power to form police and crime panels within Wales. These panels will not form within local government structures but the Bill still seeks to ensure that the panels are made up of locally elected representatives, invited to form such a body at the request of the Secretary of State.