Public Bodies Bill [HL]

My Lords, government Amendments 60A, 69A and 69B in this group are an important contribution to the Bill. They are designed to respond to the criticism of the Delegated Powers Committee that the Bill as drafted did not sufficiently define the purpose for which orders might be brought forward. In challenging the Government to provide such purpose, the committee sought a safeguard against the abuse of the powers that the Bill would grant to Ministers. I am happy to be able to respond to that challenge. Amendment 60A establishes a purpose for the use of the main order-making powers of the Bill by amending Clause 8. If the amendment is accepted, Ministers will be able to make an order only if they consider that it, "““serves the purpose of improving the exercise of public functions””." In making that assessment, a Minister would be required to have regard to the matters listed in paragraphs (a) to (d) of the amendment. While I appreciate that the purpose as defined in Amendment 60A is relatively broad, I trust that noble Lords will appreciate why this is the case. During the numerous debates in Committee and on Report on the bodies listed in the Bill, the Government have demonstrated their intent to take forward a wide range of reforms. These include the cessation of unnecessary functions and bodies, the mergers of bodies to improve efficiency and the delivery of some functions outside the state sector, including through charities. What links these otherwise disparate reforms is the Government’s clear imperative to create a rationalised public bodies landscape in which necessary functions are delivered in an appropriate and effective manner. The purpose of Amendment 60A is to articulate this goal and to ensure that an order cannot be brought forward for a purpose outside the intended scope of the Bill as debated fully in Parliament. Amendment 61ZA, tabled by my noble friend Lord Maclennan of Rogart, would require that Ministers could bring forward an order only if they were satisfied that it met one of the objectives in subsection (1). I am not able to support this amendment because, as I have described, there is a single overarching objective in that subsection. However, I can assure my noble friend that Ministers will be required to have regard to each of the matters listed in paragraphs (a) to (d) of the subsection when making an order. Amendment 60B, tabled by my noble friend Lord Phillips of Sudbury, would remove efficiency from the list of matters to which a Minister must have regard when considering whether an order would meet the purpose specified in Amendment 60A. I understand the noble Lord’s argument that, in practice, efficiency and economy are closely linked. None the less, the Government envisage circumstances in which an order might increase efficiency in the exercise of functions while not producing a significant economy. For example, the merger of the Pensions Ombudsman and the ombudsman for the board of the Pension Protection Fund will not produce a significant cost saving, as the bodies already to all intents and purposes operate as a single entity. However, their formal merger in statute will support a more efficient public bodies landscape by streamlining the legislative basis for their retained functions. Amendments 69A and 69B provide a mechanism through which the Government would be held accountable for meeting the requirement in Amendment 60A. They add a requirement to the procedure set out in Clause 11 that will require the Explanatory Note accompanying any order to explain why and how the Minister considers the order to meet the purpose described in Amendment 60A. I hope that these amendments will assist the committees of both Houses in considering whether the orders made under this Bill fit the criteria that the Bill now describes. Amendment 60AB has been tabled by my noble friend Lord Newton of Braintree. I am afraid to say that my noble friend is not very well and cannot be with us today, but I hope that the House will excuse me if I address the issues that he raised because I am sure that he wants to know the Government’s reactions to his amendment. The amendment’s intentions are laudable and, as the noble Lord pointed out in Committee, at the heart of the coalition Government’s approach. The amendment would add fairness, openness, transparency and justice to the list of matters to be considered under Clause 8(1). I remain unable to support the amendment’s inclusion in the Bill simply because we believe that it would add an additional and, for the purpose of legislation, quite abstract evidential burden. Put simply, we do not concede either that a Minister would not consider these issues in some form when deciding whether to make an order or that the consultation and procedural requirements that we have already built into the Bill will not ensure that Ministers are held to account in relation to the fairness, openness, transparency and justice of their proposals. Ministers will be required clearly to explicate the reasons for an order in the explanatory documents that will accompany it and Parliament will have ample opportunity to scrutinise these explanations. I do not, therefore, consider that the additional burden that the amendment would create would add value to the order-making process. I make a similar argument in relation to Amendments 60AA and 60C in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, each of which would direct Ministers to consider the existing functions and aims of a body affected by an order. As I stated on 23 March, the amendments that the Government have proposed to Clause 8 make it inconceivable for a Minister, when considering making an order, not to have considered the aims, objectives or functions of the body concerned, both whether they remain necessary and whether any improvement could be made in their delivery. The amendments proposed by the noble Baroness also do not appear to take account of the fact that an order could in itself alter the aims or objectives of a body or office. Specifically, I am resistant to Amendment 60AA on the grounds that the Government envisage that the purpose of improving the exercise of public functions may require a broader interpretation. For example, an order might abolish a body or some or all of its functions on the grounds that the Government had decided that those functions were unnecessary as currently set out in statute. Alternatively, an order may form part of a broader policy in which related changes, such as the establishment of new bodies or functions, are taken forward in a separate piece of legislation but are dependent on the order for their implementation. In such circumstances, the noble Baroness’s wording would make it difficult for a Minister to demonstrate that the order itself improved the exercise of public functions, even though such an improvement would clearly be the intent of bringing forward the order. I assure the noble Baroness, however, that I acknowledge the thrust of her amendments and consider that our drafting of Clauses 8 and 11 ensures that the functions, aims and objectives of a body will receive due consideration. Amendment 61A, in the name of my noble friend Lord Newton, would require that Ministers could make an order only if they considered that it would, "““not remove any necessary independence or objectivity in relation to the assessment of any public service””." Again, I have no issue with the spirit of my noble friend’s amendment; the Government have been clear throughout the passage of the Bill that they do not intend to remove the necessary independence of those public functions that require it. However, I believe that the aim of this amendment is better addressed through Clause 16, which places specific restrictions on the power of Ministers to make orders that would have such an effect in relation to obligations imposed on a Minister. I also remind the House that under Clause 10(1)(f) a Minister is required to consult the Lord Chief Justice before making an order in relation to functions that relate to the administration of justice. I believe that that safeguard is pertinent to the intent of this amendment. The government amendments in this group build on the improvements that we have already made to this Bill during its passage through the House. They clarify the purpose of the Bill’s delegation of powers and they provide a mechanism through which Ministers can be held to account for their actions in this regard. I beg to move. Amendment 60AA (to Amendment 60A) Moved by