Public Bodies Bill [HL]

My Lords, first, I thank the noble Lord for his response and for its friendly tones, which I appreciate and which have characterised the Government’s approach to discussions on the future of the national parks. I want everybody to recognise that we know that and appreciate it greatly. We are all getting titbits of indications about what might be in the review and what its outcome might be. The noble Lord has given us a few sweeteners and I have certainly heard some reports and seen some assessments of what that exercise might have indicated, but in the assessments I have seen there is no indication whatever of any great demand for radical change—none at all. There are some very constructive observations but there seems to be no argument coming out for a radical change of arrangements. I am sure that the Minister, who is a reasonable man, will agree that it is not really satisfactory to be considering giving those undefined and extensive powers to which the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, referred so well before we have seen the outcome of the consultation. If that consultation was necessary, surely we should see its outcome before we decide whether we wanted to give Ministers certain powers to meet that situation. This is untidy and the noble Lord in his heart of hearts probably would agree with me that constitutionally it is not really acceptable. There are also—and my noble friend Lady Quin made the point very well—all sorts of provisions under existing legislation. It just is not clear what is going to be better about putting these new very extensive, open, ill-defined powers into this Bill. I want to thank all those who have participated in the debate. Absolutely everyone, without exception, has spoken with the authority of engagement and of years of experience in these matters. I take particular encouragement from the fact that the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, spoke; he and I came into the House together 20 years ago. We have watched each other and been friends across the divide and on probably far more issues than not, I am sorry to say, we do not see eye to eye. However, on this issue—the importance of the parks and their qualitative dimension to society and the areas of outstanding natural beauty—we have always seen eye to eye and it was therefore good to hear him. I want to thank everyone, from the Cross Benches, the Liberal Party and my own Front Bench who have contributed. I am in touch with a very wide cross-section of people who care about these issues deeply. I have the privilege of being president of the Friends of the Lake District which represents CPRE in Cumbria. I have the privilege of being a vice-president of the Campaign for National Parks and although that does not make me a trustee or an executive staff member of either organisation, it keeps me very much in touch with a wide cross-section of the people involved. I know that there will be a lot of good will towards the Government for the steps they have taken on this Bill so far. They will have generated brownie points as indeed will the measures they have taken so far—although there is a lot more still to be covered and a lot more safeguards to be put in as to what they have done on forests as well. That will accentuate the anxiety about why this particular generalised power is not being compromised at all in the Government’s approach and why they are being so intransigent on the issue. It is a pity and I hope therefore that before Third Reading they will, even at this 11th hour plus, go away and think whether there is some way that they can come back and meet this point and not spoil the good will they have generated by leaving quite acute anxiety out there concerning this part of the Bill. At this stage I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 31 withdrawn. Amendment 32 Moved by