Public Bodies Bill [HL]

The right reverend Prelate is making a judgment that I am suggesting is in fact, on this occasion—probably only on this occasion—erroneous. The fact is that the Church Commissioners are making a choice about how the historic property of the Church of England should be used in today’s world without, frankly, any thought of either tomorrow or yesterday. The Church of England has a duty to remember the interests of the whole church. This money will be applied to a number of charitable purposes, but the disposal will deprive our society of some very valuable things. I hope that the right reverend Prelate will allow me to use a biblical comparison. Many people criticised Mary Magdalene for using valuable ointment on the feet of our Lord. He said very clearly that they were wrong in their judgment. My problem with right reverend Prelate’s argument is that I have heard it before. When I was a member of the General Synod of the Church of England, I argued that the assets of the church that protected the pensions of the right reverend Prelate and others should, in fact, be applied only to socially responsible investments. The secretary of the Church Commissioners got up and said, ““We apply them using the very best advice of the City of London””. I said, ““I thought the church was supposed to lead and set the example, not blame the City of London or suggest that the City can make moral judgments””. My noble and right reverend friend Lord Harries took the Church Commissioners to court on this issue and I am sad that he did not win. However, the Church Commissioners have changed their views on this. This is the second reason why the right reverend Prelate is wrong, because if the Church Commissioners can invest, not for the best return on their money but on the basis that they will invest only in things that are proper for the Church of England to invest in, the church is making a judgment, not about what it can make the most money out of, but one which comes from its Gospel doctrines. I have to say that the idea that you could sell and allow to be taken—because that is what will happen if the position cannot be changed—from the walls of that great house a memorial to a moment in history when the Church of England stood up for the Gospel doctrines in a way which was remarkable for that century would be a manifest betrayal of the Church of England’s duty to look after the interests of the whole nation, rather than to seek to make an immediate profit for the use of a particular attitude and a particular church. That is not the role of the Church of England. This money is going to be spent not to protect interests in which all of us can join but to protect those of a no doubt very noble but particular position of the Church of England. The third reason I feel so strongly is that we have had this before in another way. The Ecclesiastical Committee found that the behaviour of the then Dean of Westminster Abbey was other than satisfactory, but there was no ability to question the Dean because it was a royal peculiar, and the Church of England protected that situation. Although the interests of the wider community might have suggested that the committee should have been given that opportunity, which is the case with every other cathedral, it was not something that the Church of England was prepared to do. I say to the Committee that I have come to the very sad conclusion that, when property or money is concerned, the Church of England does not always reach to the highest standards. I have found that all my life; I am finding it at the moment in the delicate issue of the ordinariate and the ability to share churches; and I find it in the fact that the unnecessary building of churches takes place in my own area, because the Church of England is not prepared to have long leases and to share with others. It is very curious that it is the one area where one finds it very difficult to get the Church of England to behave as one would expect.