Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

I thank my noble friend Lord Touhig for laying out the case on behalf of Wales so impressively. These three amendments, to which I have added my name, together form a coherent whole. There is the amendment that states that the number of parliamentary constituencies in Wales should not be reduced below 35; there is the amendment that states that there should be no reduction of more than 10 per cent in the number of Welsh parliamentary seats at one boundary review; and there is the amendment that proposes that the measures in the Bill should not come into force unless and until powers have been transferred to the Welsh Assembly in consequence of a vote of the people of Wales in the referendum that is to be held this spring. This is an important debate. It is a debate that we have to have, not least because in another place, there was no debate specifically on the measures in the Bill which would have such an enormous impact on Wales. In Committee in the other place, when amendments dealing with the situation in Wales would have been reached, I understand that some 30 Members of Parliament stood to catch the eye of the Chair, but the guillotine came down and that debate did not take place. That timetable Motion was not a proper way to treat the House of Commons, least of all when dealing with major constitutional legislation. As a consequence of that, aside from other considerations, it is our responsibility in this House to scrutinise the measure as it would affect Wales and discuss our amendments. The Government are proposing an extreme and rapid reduction in parliamentary representation for Wales. Wales, which has only 5 per cent of the population of the United Kingdom, would, under the Government's proposals, suffer 20 per cent of the reduction in the number of parliamentary seats for the country as a whole. Wales would lose 25 per cent of its existing seats. By comparison, Northern Ireland would lose 17 per cent of its seats; Scotland 9 per cent; and England only 5.5 per cent. Of course, it is in England that Conservative electoral strength is most concentrated. Whether or not it is the Government's intention to rig the parliamentary system in support of the Conservative Party, I must tell them that there is a real perception in Wales that that is what it is about. The noble and learned Lord the Minister may contend that, as things are, Wales is overrepresented in the House of Commons. I recognise that, by reference to the principle of numerical equality between constituencies, that is indeed the case. But, as we have frequently contended in the debates on this legislation, there are other factors that it is proper to take into account. Wales is a nation. It was joined with England in 1536, but over the centuries it has had its own history and, as my noble friend emphasised, its own language. Until now, the Parliament of the United Kingdom has recognised that and has accepted that proportionally Wales should have more seats in the House of Commons than the numbers in its population alone would imply. There are very good reasons for that. Aside from the reality of Welsh nationhood, there is also the geography of Wales which, as the House is aware, is singularly intractable when it comes to trying to achieve numerical equality between constituencies. There are very large rural areas that are very thinly populated. We have spoken about the constituency of Brecon and Radnorshire in our debates. It is 80 miles from north to south and 40 miles from east to west. It is a huge constituency geographically. If the Government’s proposals were to be implemented in their undiluted form, we would have a constituency that might stretch from Crickhowell in the south to Wrexham in the north. It would be an impossible constituency for a Member of Parliament to represent satisfactorily. RS Thomas wrote some lines about a Welsh farmer penning his sheep in a gap of cloud on the bald Welsh hills. It is that kind of constituency. It is very difficult to traverse the length and breadth of it, and I wonder how the Member of Parliament, even so excellent a Member of Parliament as Mr Roger Williams, would be able to do justice to the work that needs to be done in the constituency on behalf of his constituents and also to his responsibilities here at Westminster. In the south, there are the valleys, the deep valleys, each of which contains its own very distinct community. Let me again say to the House that the Reform Act 1832, which the Deputy Prime Minister cites as his inspiration, introduced into our system of parliamentary representation the principle that Members of Parliament should represent communities and interests. That way, the people of this country would know that they were represented in the House of Commons and Members of the House of Commons would know what the responsibilities of their colleagues were in terms of representing their communities. It is not wise to ask Members of Parliament to attempt to represent at one and the same time very different communities separated by geographical realities that you cannot simply or sensibly ignore. It may also be argued by the Government that this wholesale reduction in Welsh representation in the House of Commons is the more justified because Wales has its own Assembly which exercises devolved powers of government. I must remind the House that the powers the Assembly exercises at present are powers of secondary legislation and, as my noble friend Lord Touhig explained to the House, great swathes of the policy that determines how life in Wales is to be led emanate from central government. In macroeconomic policy, Wales receives a block grant that is transferred from London to Cardiff. It is an essential responsibility of Members of Parliament representing Welsh constituencies to consider that block grant and make representations on behalf of their constituents as to its implications. Benefits policy, pensions policy, police, immigration, criminal justice, broadcasting, defence and foreign policy are not devolved responsibilities. The people of Wales accept the policy made on their behalf by the Parliament of the United Kingdom and, correspondingly, they need to have representation that enables their interests to be articulated and allows them to make their contribution to our debates. The Welsh nation has a right to see its interests protected through adequate representation in the House of Commons. It is the practice across the world where you have decentralised government or devolved government for small states or small nations to be allowed a somewhat disproportionate representation in the central government. That occurs in the United States of America, Spain and Germany. In the case of Wales, where there is so much dependence on the public sector for employment, it is particularly important that the representation of the people of Wales in the House of Commons should not be abruptly and drastically reduced. We are entering exceedingly difficult times. We saw figures yesterday that showed the gross domestic product of the United Kingdom actually contracting. Wales is a part of the country that is peculiarly vulnerable to that contraction and to the policies that the Government have judged appropriate to try to extricate our nation and our economy from this situation. They have thought it appropriate to cut public spending on a large scale and at a rapid pace. They need to recognise that the impact of this in Wales is going to be felt with peculiar force, and I put it to them that it is not a sensitive thing to do to drain Wales’s parliamentary representation at the same time as they are draining its economic life blood. The people of Wales feel strongly about that. My noble friend spoke of the contribution that great Welsh parliamentarians have made to our Parliament of the United Kingdom. He spoke of Lloyd George, Aneurin Bevan, James Callaghan and Michael Foot, and I would add the name of my noble friend Lord Kinnock. I also respect very much the contribution that distinguished Conservative Ministers, such as the noble Lords, Lord Crickhowell and Lord Roberts of Conwy, have made, and they take their place in that pantheon. I do not think it is in the interests of the Parliament of the United Kingdom that the contribution of Welsh parliamentarians should be so reduced. It is not wise, probably in any circumstances and certainly not when you are trying to reform the constitution, to impose a one-size-fits-all solution. I put it to noble Lords opposite and appeal to them not to apply the full rigour of the numerical formula to Wales. Government by formula, almost by definition, must be insensitive and is liable to produce inappropriate and unhappy consequences. Whatever reduction in parliamentary representation for Wales the Government intend, they should proceed more gradually than they have proposed. In their response to the fourth report of the Welsh Affairs Select Committee in another place, the Government said that, "““there is a need to get on with the job of constitutional reform as soon as we can””." Why this rush to constitutional reform? Surely the appropriate approach to constitutional reform is through sustained debate, gradual advance, the negotiation of compromise and the construction of consensus. That is the spirit of these amendments. I say to noble Lords opposite, please do not break faith with the people of Wales. When they were offered devolution in 1997 and voted for it, it was on the understanding that there would be a continuation of the same representation in Parliament. I am prepared to accept that it is reasonable to review the representation of Wales in Parliament as and when the devolution settlement is significantly altered. That may occur this year. There will be a vote of the Welsh people in a referendum which will ask them whether they wish to see primary legislative powers transferred to Cardiff in those areas that are already devolved. The scope of devolution would not otherwise be widened. If the people of Wales, knowing that the implication of a yes vote in the referendum would be that their representation in the Westminster Parliament would be reduced none the less decide that that is what they want, then, and at that point only, it would be reasonable for a change to be made in the number of Welsh seats. The manuscript amendment tabled today by the noble Lord, Lord Williamson, is significant, and I am grateful to him for drawing it to our attention early in this debate. I agree with him absolutely that it is more important to get the Bill right than to rush these proceedings and the implementation of any measures. If in 2015 the dates of a general election and elections to the Welsh Assembly coincide, it is possible that there will simultaneously be two sets of elections on two sets of boundaries with two different voting systems and, in many parts of Wales, two languages. This is a recipe for confusion if not chaos. When the Government replied to the House of Commons Welsh Affairs Committee, which raised many of the same objections of principle to this legislation as we have in your Lordships' House, the Government, in reference to the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill and the Fixed-term Parliaments Bill, said: "““The Government believes that these two pieces of legislation will be the foundation on which we can rebuild public confidence in our political system … This demonstrates the practical benefits of the Government's Respect agenda””." Rebuild confidence in the political system? Respect? This Bill as we have it shows disregard for Wales as a nation; it shows contempt for the people of Wales as citizens of our democracy; and it shows a reckless willingness to alienate the people of Wales from the union.