Energy Bill [HL]

I apologise for the delay; the groupings are a little confusing. I am reminded during these debates of the words of the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, who said that we were entering a very complex area. One comes to the Grand Committee thinking that one understands everything, but as the debate moves forward one is often prompted to think that we are questioning at cross-purposes. On other occasions, one thinks that one knows all about it when a question is suddenly asked that makes one think, ““Have I really understood it?””. In proposing Amendment 20AAA, I wonder whether I have really understood it because I am confused as to why this amendment is not also grouped with Amendment 20AA, but there are quite a few areas in which that amendment could have had an effect. The amendment is rather simple, but it touches on three serious areas which we have already debated and which I shall pick up on as I go through my remarks. Amendment 20AAA takes issue with Clause 39 where it refers to landlords. What I am referring to here could happen in the first instance where there are extra costs involved, a point also touched on by Amendment 20AA. I refer to where a local authority, as the landlord, may face some extra costs of which there is no mention in the legislation and the regulations, and could possibly not be mentioned; that is, the question of fees. The second area I wish to draw to the Minister’s attention for clarification has also been touched on by the noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, when he questioned what would happen if a bill payer refused to take part in a Green Deal, especially when that bill payer is only one among a group of tenancies or properties. He would then hold up the application for the Green Deal by refusing. What we have in mind is that perhaps other tenants could group together and say that the one tenant has unreasonably withheld his consent, which affects the rest of the group. In that situation, could that individual tenant be overruled? That is also included in this provision. The third situation is where there is a mix of landlords and tenants within a property and it is difficult to identify all the tenants involved. That may bring up further issues where fees and applications need to be made. As my noble friend Lord O’Neill and the noble Lord, Lord Best, identified, there are properties with a high turnover of tenants, which only adds to the difficulties. Having set out the three avenues I wish to pursue, I beg to move.