Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill

I thought that that was the case. This is a question of who or what we are going to be consistent with. We cannot be consistent with both, but obviously at some stage, there has been inconsistency between the two enactments—hence the problem. Returning to IPSA, I was saying that I still have some concerns about exactly to whom the compliance officer will be answerable, if anyone, and about the independence of their role, which will be critical to the operation of the process. I welcome amendment 55, which provides for IPSA to supply guidance, both general and specific, to Members. That function, however, must be separated from that of the compliance officer. The compliance officer cannot provide that advice, because they might find themselves taking a critical view of IPSA's actions, and their independence of action would be frustrated from day one if they were also the source of such advice. That has not been made explicit in the amendment, but no such linkage is suggested by it either. I hope, however, that IPSA will take note of my comments and ensure that the compliance officer is at least at one remove from the provision of any such advice. The other principal area of amendment in this group relates to the discretion given to the compliance officer in dealing with Members who have been paid sums to which they are not entitled, when IPSA might be wholly or partly at fault. This raises a number of questions. I do not intend to divide the House on this point, but I should like clarification on the definition of fault in this context. Obviously, a simple arithmetical error would constitute a fault, but would a judgment based on advice that had been misconstrued be seen as a fault? We are getting into a difficult area here, in trying to define fault on the part of IPSA. We should make a clear distinction between an overpayment in which the Member had had no involvement—for example, when they had claimed for a certain amount and more had been put into their bank account, unbeknown to them—and a case in which a Member had claimed for an item of expenditure to which they were not entitled under the scheme. The key question is whether the Member would have incurred the expenditure, were it not for the advice—or clearance, if we are to put it that way—from IPSA that they took before incurring it. It is not the claim that is the issue but the expenditure. If a Member has simply been overpaid, there should be no question but that they should pay it back. The money is not theirs. Whether they received it because of an error by IPSA is immaterial to the fact that they are in possession of public moneys to which they are not entitled. There is a strong argument for a degree of discretion in arranging the manner and timetable of the repayment, but we should not afford ourselves any discretion in statute as to whether the money should be repaid at all. After all, we do not allow such discretion to people who are overpaid through tax credits, for example. I regularly meet people who are outraged because, having been overpaid in that way, through no fault of their own, they are then being required to repay the money, often at an inconvenient time, even though they have often spent it, perhaps on their children. This often happens to people who are not very well off. We should not give ourselves any latitude that we do not allow others when it comes to overpayment. A separate issue involves expenditure incurred as a result of an inquiry as to whether it was properly allowable, the answer to which was yes. The expenditure, which would not otherwise have been incurred, is then made, and subsequently reclaimed. Again, the first responsibility must rest with the individual Member, and not on the advice that they were given. If there is to be a discretion to excuse Members who have claimed money inappropriately from repaying it when the claim is determined to be inadmissible, I would expect that discretion to be used very sparingly, if at all. I can see why it is sensible to have some discretion, but I would like IPSA to issue clear instructions on when it is appropriate to use it. I do not think that its use will be appropriate in most cases.