Equality Bill

My Lords, this is such an important debate. It is a little sad that it is all grouped together because there are a number of different issues. As we have just heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Campbell of Surbiton, there are agreements and disagreements across the group. I have listened with great interest to the speeches of the noble Baronesses, Lady Young and Lady Coussins, and it is good to know of both the sympathy and support of the noble Lord, Lord Lester of Herne Hill. We have also received a briefing from the Equality and Human Rights Commission about this whole area and have done our best to consider its content very carefully. Everyone is in agreement that the success of the proposals in the public sector equality duty rely on how effective it is and how much impact it has on reducing inequalities. We all want to ensure that the seemingly vague duty that is laid down in the Bill does not just result in some form of box-ticking exercise that will burden businesses for very little gain in reducing the inequalities it is supposed to tackle. For this reason, I feel that all the amendments in this group have sense at their heart and I understand that the intention behind them is to ensure that not only should due regard be paid to eliminating discrimination but that there should be a much more proactive element. The amendments try to ensure that public authorities cannot just take into account the need to reduce disadvantages between different groups, meet the needs of different groups and encourage participation in areas where it is low. They attempt to enshrine in legislation the necessity for real action to be taken rather than simply paying lip-service to having taken certain factors into account. Nevertheless, having said that, and, I hope, having expressed sympathy with the intention behind the amendments, I am not sure they are the best way of ensuring the success of the measures. The requirement to "take account of" and "take such steps" seems already to be included under the duty. I am not clear, therefore, what these amendments would add. They would have the effect of requiring public authorities to identify and take which steps are "appropriate" and which are "necessary". This can obviously be flexible and with reference to the specific authority concerned. However, the object is that the commission should be able to take action against organisations which, ""fail to identify strong enough measures to promote equality and if they fail to take such measures"." Does the Minister agree that the most important factor is to assess the outcomes of such measures rather than involve the commission too heavily in the process of identifying targets for each authority? Thanks goodness some of my noble friends are not here as I have some responsibility for the concept of targets, I have to admit. I always felt that at least they were a way to point people in the right direction. But I have now learnt that there are some drawbacks to this process. It risks merely increasing the bureaucratic burden on businesses and organisations while not addressing the real issue, which I still believe, and I think everyone agrees, is achieving the right outcomes. The second issue contained in this group—