Child Poverty Bill

I support the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood. I think the noble Lord, Lord Freud, is running two arguments simultaneously, and I am not sure which he is after. Is he after a concern which was first expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Northbourne, and the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, and which we all agree with? It is the problem that if you have limited, tiny definitions of targets, if I can put it that way, people perform to them; such as how quickly you answer a telephone. That warps and distorts a more holistic approach. I think we all share that view. If that is what the noble Lord is saying in response to the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, there is probably no distinction between us. Actually, his speech was laden with remarks about parents who fail to make the right choices and parents who do not cope properly, and the implication of what he was saying was that there was a case for perhaps a greater share of benefit provision being in kind rather than in cash, and that therefore you should make sure that you count that in. If that is not what the noble Lord is saying, I will not need to say anything further. If that is what he is saying, I would like to continue. Perhaps he can help me on that point before I waste the Committee’s time by trying to rebut an assertion that he is not making.