Equality Bill

My Lords, I support the intention behind this amendment. The more I think about the years we have waited to get anything near equal pay for work of equal value, the more perhaps I have become cynical about how long it will take to achieve. Not least are the excuses, such as, "We are in a bad economic situation". So what do we do? We make certain that we do not give anything at all that we think might cost us, which fails to take account of the fact that one of the good aspects of a recession is that it should be, and is in some cases, encouraging firms to half lay off people—for example, using flexible working—which applies to men as well as women. However, on a more general point, there are many sides to this issue. I feel almost as if I am arguing the same case for prison reform. Let us do more to prevent it happening in the first place. What is happening in schools? How often are girls being taught about jobs where there is need and where the pay is better, and always has been? Mentoring of that sort would help. There are all sorts of things like that. For example, girls can be given the chance of apprenticeships in areas that they have never thought of or have had suggested to them. Preventive work is part of it. Clearly, we have more people in the public service than we have ever had before. If the public sector is to set an example, as it should, this will have some effect if it can be shown that it is setting the example for others to follow, not least if it starts with employers of 150 people. I should like to encourage everyone not to be too depressed by all of this, but to think of a range of ways in which we can move ahead. I am afraid that I am even more cynical than I have indicated so far. When we had equal numbers of trade unions and CBI reps on the Equal Opportunities Commission, I am afraid that my reaction was, "Okay, those six will get together and make certain things do not move as fast as they should". There was too much common interest in not moving ahead. There is a lot still to do, but I am certain that we can move much faster than we are. The idea put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Lester, even if his proposal is not well drafted, is a good beginning.