Health Bill [HL]

My Lords, it is clear from today’s debate that protecting young people from harm caused by tobacco is a serious issue which needs to be addressed. It is one that many feel passionately about. As the noble Earl said, we do not disagree about the importance of this issue. Amendment 11 will be a major step towards tackling the serious problem of young people accessing tobacco from vending machines. I will respond to a number of the points raised during this debate. First, the Government’s position on tobacco vending machines has indeed changed in light of the debate at Report stage of the Health Bill in another place. We admit that we have changed our minds, notwithstanding the quotes raised by the noble Lord, Lord Monson, when we considered the Bill earlier this year. It was an impassioned debate in another place, and it resulted in a key amendment being accepted. The intention of the amendment made in the other place was to remove the power to impose requirements on tobacco vending machines, thus allowing the Government only to prohibit cigarette sales from such machines or not. As the Secretary of State for Health said in another place, the will of the House will be respected when the Government consider how best to put it into effect. That is why the Government do not seek to overturn the amendment now. I will discuss the will of the Commons not being clear, and there not having been a Division. The noble Baroness, Lady Barker, checked with her colleagues in another place; this was indeed helpful and exactly accords with my view. The noble Lords, Lord Monson and Lord Naseby, raised this issue. As noble Lords well know, the other place determines its own rules. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Maclennan, for his comments on this. The Speaker presides over the Chamber to ensure that those rules are followed. It is not normally the Government’s job to put tellers in on a free vote. The Speaker ruled on that day and Hansard records that decision. Yes, a Division was called off and the amendment was accepted on a shout. I can recall times when this House has had such procedures. Under similar circumstances, noble Lords have accepted that decision; it is considered a proper and valid decision of this House. I suspect that honourable Members in another place may take exception to their procedure being questioned in the way that it has been by noble Lords—as, indeed, we would. We were asked: why not allow the vending machine companies to implement restrictions on a voluntary basis before banning them? As long ago as 1998, the Smoking Kills White Paper referred to the voluntary code of practice issued by the National Association of Cigarette Machine Operators to its members. This code has been revised so that the primary consideration when siting a machine is the need to prevent sales to children. Despite the NACMO code of practice, vending machines remain a significant source of tobacco for children and young people. That is why we included vending machines in the Health Bill in the first place, and why Ministers have made it clear that action will be taken. The tobacco vending machine industry has had ample opportunity voluntarily to solve the problem of youngsters getting tobacco from its machines; it has been unsuccessful. Young people are still getting tobacco from vending machines. I met representatives of NACMO this morning because I wanted fully to understand the issues. I listened carefully to what they had to say. We are committed to making the regulations on the tobacco provisions of the Health Bill as soon as possible. There is nothing to be gained from undue delay. As I pointed out to the gentlemen I met this morning, the date would still be October 2011, which is nearly two years away. It would not be immediate. There is scaremongering among the people who run these companies that this is an immediate ban. This is not the case. The Government are taking the powers—