Coroners and Justice Bill

I thank noble Lords who have spoken, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham. I am duly corrected; I should of course have praised him too for the part that he has played in moving the Government as far as they have gone. I am afraid, however, that I cannot accept his amendment on behalf of the Government. As I understand it, his intention is that legal aid should be available in the cases that we are talking about at the discretion of the coroner. I cannot accept that for the following reasons. The decision will be made against the relevant criteria, which will reflect the position now, when legal aid for representation at inquests is considered under the exceptional funding procedure. The current guidance states that one of the matters to be considered is: ""Any views, concerning the necessity of representation, expressed by the coroner, although these are not determinative"." We intend to replicate that in the new arrangements. As I understand it, there are currently no situations in civil cases where legal aid is granted before a hearing by judicial office holders, and we see no reason to give greater power in this regard to coroners than to the wider judiciary. Apart from anything else, different coroners may well take different views on the value of representation and, for example, on financial eligibility issues. I know that the current secretary of the Coroners’ Society, for example, would be against the noble Lord’s amendment. He has said: ""I never support or influence legal aid applications. The means test is factual and the merits test is a matter for the decision maker and fundholder … Further in inquisitorial proceedings it is still important to be seen to be impartial. Though Circuit and District Judges deal with legal aid they are unlikely to also hear the case"." A past secretary of the Coroners’ Society has said: ""I don’t think the Coroners’ Society has an agreed position, in that it has never been formally debated. Individual coroners will have their own view … In the past, it has sometimes been suggested that coroners should ‘support’ the legal aid application submitted by properly interested persons in Art 2 cases but I have always been uncomfortable with this in that what may be a ‘simple’ case to one coroner may be complex to a less experienced one and so any letter in support will be very subjective"." The suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, goes much further, potentially leaving coroners exposed to a further area for judicial review. We are looking for as clear, fair and consistent a system as possible, with applications being considered against published criteria. The noble Lord’s amendment would not achieve that aim. If I were being pernickety, I would say that his drafting might not achieve his apparent objective. Adding, ""at the discretion of the coroner"," would involve a new stage of requiring the coroner’s view and would be likely to restrict the availability of legal aid to cases where the coroner asked for it. However, that wording would not make the coroner’s decision determinative, as it would still be subject to the criteria in the funding code. I therefore invite the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment today. I have no doubt that he will have other ways of trying to bring it forward on a later occasion. I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, will be relieved to hear that I stand by what I said on Report, but we will consult on that when we consult on the regulation. I hope that in my response to the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, I dealt with the matter raised by the noble Lord, Lord Lester.