Coroners and Justice Bill

My Lords, the Minister seems to suggest that we are living in the past. That is not true. We say that the standard should be set by a jury, which must be under the age of 65; from our contemporary society; represents a cross-section of the community; understands the people in front of it; and can weigh these issues up in a way that we cannot in the House of Lords on 26 October. We cannot legislate in that way to cover all situations. The noble Lord has confirmed—indeed, my noble friend Lord Carlile has confirmed—that you do not succeed in a simple case of infidelity with a plea of provocation. It requires much more than that today—more than it may have done if you went back to when this defence was first invented in 1707. That is how old provocation is as a defence to murder. The standards of today are to be applied not by the Government in this House but by a jury, who will hear the whole case—all the facts, all the mitigation—and, by the standards that they believe are right for today’s society, will determine whether this should reduce murder to manslaughter. I am opposed to that concept anyway, as your Lordships know, but, if you have to have it, to exclude sexual infidelity from the consideration of the jury altogether by statute is entirely wrong in principle. It is not that we are for husbands who kill their wives or wives who kill their husbands, or anything like that. It is the way our system works that standards are to be applied by the people—not, as in this instance, by the legislators. It is for that reason that I seek to test the opinion of the House. Division on Amendment 62 Contents 99; Not-Contents 84. Amendment 62 agreed. Amendment 63 not moved. Clause 50 : Abolition of common law defence of provocation Clause 50 : Abolition of common law defence of provocation Amendment 64 not moved. Amendment 65 Moved by