Coroners and Justice Bill

I hope that what I said was not "a bit" more, but was "slightly". That is our view and I think it was probably the view—although how dare I speak for them?—of the members of the Gage working group. They had before them various choices. They had the United States experience, which they rejected out of hand—I think everyone here agrees that that was the right thing to do. They had the Criminal Justice Act 2003, which has been praised by noble Lords this evening in a way I do not think I have ever heard that Act praised before in this House. They also had the New Zealand Sentencing Act 2002. They had these three before them; I have no doubt that they may have had others in mind too. On a majority, they favoured the phrasing that was used in the New Zealand Sentencing Act 2002. The Government, too, in their turn, following the Gage recommendation—and it was a recommendation—think that that is an appropriate way of phrasing this issue. The "interests of justice" phrase is the most significant phrase in all this, as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf, was arguing. It means that a judge can pass the sentence that he or she wants to pass. That is why I find it hard to see what the objection is to the use of the word "must", as far as the guidelines are concerned, as opposed to the words in the 2003 Act.