Coroners and Justice Bill

I am grateful to every Member of the Committee who has participated in this incredibly powerful debate. I go back to where I started—the current position. It is not unlawful to go abroad for assisted dying in a place where assisted dying is lawful. People go abroad to do that. Although huge passions were expressed during the debate, I never detected at any stage that anybody in the Committee wanted to prosecute the well intentioned person who went with their loved one to help them in their assisted dying; I did not get that flavour from anyone’s expressions. I also felt that practically everybody in the Committee was concerned to ensure proper safeguards against two situations—where the person who went for the assisted suicide was not terminally ill and where they were being overpersuaded to go. The current situation is that the DPP has made it clear that he will not seek out these cases to investigate. If the cases come before him, he will ensure that they are properly investigated and, as long as he is satisfied that there is good motivation, he will not prosecute. That is even though on two occasions, as my noble friend Lord Bach said, there was evidence. That sensible signal that the DPP will not prosecute in those cases, dependent as it is on public interest, has two important impacts. It indicates that he is not prepared to apply the criminal law to its full rigour at the moment, because nobody has the stomach to give effect to the law in those cases—quite correctly. When the law was introduced in 1961, it never had these cases in mind. The DPP has had, in effect, to change the law to make it work properly. The safeguards in the amendment would have two registered, qualified doctors and an independent witness looking at the matter. The noble Lord, Lord Carlile, and others suggested what a large number of unsatisfactory doctors there were. Of course there are, but no doctors look at the matter at the moment. My amendment would ensure that two did before somebody went abroad. That must be better than the current position and it would help to deal with the situation where people who were not really ill at all went believing that they were. The noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, said that the two doctors would never have picked up the five cases where there was no underlying illness that would justify going. Why not? They probably would have, but I can tell your Lordships one thing—there would be more chance of it being picked up with two doctors than without. The debate has ranged far and wide and has addressed a range of philosophical issues. I have two points. First, I do not believe that the DPP, in saying that he will not prosecute where good motives are involved, has either undermined the position of disabled people in this country or put them at greater threat. Secondly, I believe that, if one introduced the amendment, it is much more likely that the abusive cases and the cases where there was no underlying illness would be caught. It is a much more effective way of dealing with the issue than relying on prosecutions, which never occur. The DPP has given the clearest indication that he will not prosecute. Listening to the debate, I have wondered carefully whether I should test the opinion of the Committee. I am sure that I could improve on the safeguards but, having listened carefully in particular to the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, and the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, about what is alleged to be wrong, I think that ultimately there was not sufficient detail, although I am more than willing to listen before Report. I am minded to test the opinion of the Committee. Division on Amendment 173 Contents 141; Not-Contents 194. Amendment 173 disagreed. Clause 50 : Encouraging or assisting suicide (Northern Ireland) Amendment 173A not moved. Clause 50 agreed. Clause 51 agreed. House resumed. Committee to begin again not before 9.17 pm.