Coroners and Justice Bill

The noble and learned Baroness the Attorney-General did not mention the fact that juries control the situation in a murder trial where the provocation defence is run. They set the standard, and it changes over the years as people’s views change. I am sure that, 30 or 40 years ago, catching the spouse in flagrante delicto was treated as a much more aggravating feature than it might be today. I use that example to show that there is a change in society, and that the common law—and juries—adapt to it. It may be the case today that, if provocation were argued on the basis of adultery, it would not receive the same response as it would have done many years ago. The defence may be run, but would it succeed? It is for the jury to determine issues of that sort. The noble and learned Baroness objects to my reference to mangling. If you say that a loss of self-control need not be sudden, you are forcing the English language into an area where it cannot go. A loss of self-control is sudden or it is not a loss of self-control. Let us suppose that a wife is dissatisfied with her husband’s conduct towards her. It may not be serious violence, as suggested in Clause 45(3), but let us suppose that she administers poison to her husband slowly over a period of months in response to a fear of violence—perhaps she is knocked about. Could it possibly be said that over that time she is losing self-control, or would it not be said that that is a determined and considered way of killing her husband? One then has to ask the question: in that situation, should she be sentenced to mandatory life imprisonment when she has been the butt of violence in the home? The answer must be no. My point is that the whole concept of provocation was developed over centuries as a response, first, to allow some mitigation to the mandatory death sentence and that now it is used in response to a mandatory sentence of life imprisonment. It continues to alleviate the situation where a jury thinks it is just so to do. If we abolish the mandatory life sentence, either by the way suggested by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, in his Amendment 150A last week, or as a matter of policy, and the judge were left to assess what is the appropriate sentence, which he does at the moment in any event, then we would not need the concept of provocation at all. If the Government want to alter the law of murder, they should seize this chance to get rid of the whole concept of provocation, deriving as it does from a completely violent society which has now gone. Although I say that today the judge decides, in effect, what the sentence will be, that perhaps puts it a little high. A life sentence does not mean a life sentence: there are perhaps 30 to 35 people in prison on whole-life sentences. The judge will determine the tariff he thinks appropriate and leave the Parole Board to assess the risk that arises after that. So although the judge already has a very considerable input into the length that a person spends in prison, and he has discretion about what tariff to announce, but he does not have the final say. The whole idea of provocation of reducing murder to manslaughter is out of date. I can take the noble and learned Baroness to the various details. I am grateful to those speakers who have pointed out some of the anomalies and the infelicitous drafting, but basically we should get rid of these clauses altogether and ensure that when homicide is to be amended, it is amended as a whole and not partially, as is suggested in this Bill. No doubt we shall continue to consider and discuss these matters. For the moment, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 163 withdrawn. Amendments 163A to 166 not moved. Amendment 167 had been withdrawn from the Marshalled List. Debate on whether Clause 44 should stand part of the Bill.