Policing and Crime Bill

I thank noble Lords for their contribution to this debate in which a number of important points have been made. On the initial point made by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, it is true that this was an issue during the passage of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill. In the last Session, similar provisions were contained in that Bill but they were withdrawn due to time pressures on that Bill. However, we made it clear at that time that we would seek to reintroduce them at the earliest opportunity. I take some umbrage at the suggestion that it is unco-ordinated when it is part of a strategy that we are trying to develop. The noble Baroness, Lady Miller, asked why these orders are compulsory, which was echoed by the noble Lord. We recognise that wherever possible orders should be made with the consent of the person subject to the order. However, persistent involvement makes some elements of compulsion necessary. Let us not forget that we are talking about the alternative to a fine, which has become something of a revolving door for many prostitutes. We have heard tonight that perhaps 80 per cent of their income is being spent just to pay fines. A co-ordinated prostitution strategy encouraging diversion from the criminal justice system into treatment through a conditional caution or a prostitution-specific diversion scheme seems to us to have value. Those involved in street prostitution, as has been very ably said by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, are often significantly socially excluded. They are disengaged from the support service. The complex issues that they face mean that their movement out of prostitution will necessarily be slow and that there may well be a number of relapses. Many will refuse help which is freely volunteered for many of the reasons that the noble Lord has enunciated. Many also exhaust the opportunities for diversion before a route out is taken. The noble Baroness, Lady Miller, asked who we are trying to help. The answer is that we are trying to benefit the offender, but if the result is that street prostitution diminishes, a lot of people in local communities will be equally pleased to see a result that is a win-win situation for them. In our view, it is not a single, simple approach. It is part of a co-ordinated prostitution strategy, which is pledged to reform the law on street offences and to introduce a more rehabilitative element. I think that we are all agreed that three meetings will not necessarily solve any problems, but I take heart from the contribution made by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham. He described an obviously successful and innovative project in Newcastle. No doubt when this becomes law, it will be of great value in assisting the rehabilitation of prostitutes in an area. I think that we are seeing a situation where, if there is no compulsion on those cases where voluntary initiatives are not worked, at present all that there is is a revolving door of fines and more fines. I should like to correct a point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Miller. She suggested that this was a way of reintroducing custody by the back door. She said that that was to go back to Victorian times. I could be cheeky and say that when she talks of Victorian times it reminds me of Liberal Governments, but I will not. It does not do so because a breach of an order cannot lead to a prison sentence, so in that sense it is not Victorian by any means. Although there has been criticism of this and other clauses, I hope that noble Lords will give the Government credit for seeking from the noblest of motives to assist in this area, but the proposal has had so much doubt cast upon it. However, I notice that the RCN criticism actually points to the requirement for many things that we agree will be in the guidance. We seek to persuade those who are subject to an order that it is in their own interest to move into the GAP project or to seek similar assistance because they will benefit from it. I hope, therefore, that the noble Baroness will not press the Question that the clause should not stand part of the Bill.