Coroners and Justice Bill

We believe that Schedule 6 sets out a clear yet flexible structure for paying allowances to jurors, witnesses, pathologists, coroners and others who claim. Similar amendments to these were tabled in the other place. In response, my ministerial colleague, Bridget Prentice, gave an understanding to take a fresh look at these provisions in the Bill. We have reflected carefully on the argument in support of the amendments, but our conclusion is that they would remove the current flexibility for paying allowances that coroners and local authorities, as well as the Government, wish to retain. Amendments 102, 104, 106 and 107 would dictate that the relevant local authority must pay allowances to jurors, witnesses and others on behalf of a senior coroner and would prevent the coroner from doing so themselves from, for example, a delegated project. This restriction in the Bill would be of no benefit to the system, as it may evolve in the future. I reassure the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, that coroners will not have to fund allowances and expenses out of their own pockets. It is already implicit in the schedule that a local authority will ultimately fund allowances, given that the relevant local authority funds its local coroner. Regulations under paragraph 9 will provide for a coroner who has incurred expenses to be reimbursed. In the majority of areas the local authority already makes payments directly, but in a small number of others the local authority and coroner prefer the coroner to make payments that the local authority then reimburses. The schedule gives flexibility for these existing arrangements to continue, and allows payments to be made either by the senior coroner or by the authority on his or her behalf. Schedule 6 was drafted in that way following representations from some members of the Coroners’ Society. The cumulative effect of these amendments would be to remove the ability for coroners and their staff to pay allowances. That would be unnecessarily restrictive, particularly as the coroner system moves forward on the back of these reforms, and would be unwelcome to some coroners and local authorities. Amendment 109, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, deals with the expenses of medical examiners and the proposed chief medical adviser. We have already debated the merits of having a statutory chief medical adviser, so I do not propose to comment on that aspect of the amendment. On medical examiners’ expenses, I am happy to reassure the noble Baroness that Clause 19(4)(b) already provides for regulations to be made for paying medical examiners’ salaries, expenses, fees, compensation, pensions and other allowances. I turn to the three amendments that deal with the issue of indemnity. Amendments 77ZA and 114A would indemnify coroners, the Chief Coroner and deputy chief coroners against any costs that they incur when carrying out their duties, against damages awarded against them or costs they are ordered to pay, and against any sums that they are ordered to pay as part of a reasonable settlement. Amendment 63B would similarly indemnify medical examiners. I will put to one side the issue of the chief medical adviser, which we have already debated. Paragraphs (1) to (3) in Amendment 77ZA replicate the wording of Section 27A of the Coroners Act 1988, which states that coroners are indemnified by the local council. Similarly, Amendment 114A replicates the wording of a subsection of the 1988 Act, but applies the indemnity to the Chief Coroner and deputy chief coroners. Amendment 63B applies that wording to medical examiners. The noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, is concerned that the Bill does not provide for coroners to be indemnified, which could make them liable to pay out of their own pockets any costs arising from legal proceedings. In addition, I understand her concern that the Chief Coroner and his or her deputies may also find themselves out of pocket, with no indemnity. The noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, has similar concerns with regard to medical examiners. I reassure the noble Baronesses that that is not the case. Under the Bill, coroners will continue to be indemnified by the local authorities that appoint them. Any costs, including damages or sums payable by way of settlement incurred by the Chief Coroner and deputy chief coroners will be expenses which will be met by my department. I will briefly explain how the Bill provides for this. Starting with senior coroners, area coroners and assistant coroners, paragraph 9 of Schedule 6 to the Bill provides for regulations on meeting or reimbursing coroners’ expenses. We will consult on draft regulations in due course, but we intend that they will cover indemnities by replicating the effect of Section 27A of the 1988 Act. We see the expenses cited in paragraph 9 of Schedule 6 as covering not only miscellaneous monies which senior coroners have to pay out in the normal course of carrying out their duties, but also the cost to coroners of defending any claim brought in litigation, or of paying any damages or costs ordered to be paid if they lose. Indemnifying the Chief Coroner and deputy chief coroners, paragraphs 5 and 6 of Schedule 7 provide for the Lord Chancellor to pay the Chief Coroner and his or her deputies remuneration, expenses and allowances. For these purposes, expenses will again include costs incurred when defending any claim brought in litigation and costs or damages ordered to be paid by them. Moving next to indemnifying medical examiners, Clause 19(4)(b) allows the Secretary of State and the Welsh Ministers to make regulations for paying medical examiners expenses and other allowances. This would include reimbursing the cost to medical examiners of defending themselves in any litigation, and the payment of costs awarded against them as a result of such litigation, if such actions are brought personally against a medical examiner in respect of his work in that capacity. In view of these explanations and assurances, I hope that the noble Baroness will agree to withdraw her amendment.