Welfare Reform Bill

This has been an important debate. In responding, I will have the opportunity to put on the record and try to allay some of the fears of most noble Lords who have spoken, with the exception of the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, the noble Baronesses, Lady Turner, Lady Meacher and Lady Thomas, and the noble Countess, Lady Mar. I shall make a couple of points to start with. To be clear to the noble Baroness, Lady Turner, we are not taking away anybody’s right to an income by anything included in these provisions. The noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, asked about the timetable for bringing forward specific proposals on carers’ benefits. Our Green Paper on care and support is likely to be published before the Summer Recess. We have committed to retaining income support for as long as it is needed for carers. Clause 7 sets out the conditions which are required before a decision to abolish income support can be taken. When these conditions exist, the clause will enable the Secretary of State to make an order which effectively switches off income support. It would also allow him to make any transitional and consequential provisions that may be needed. Amendment 80 states that the decision to switch off income support should be subject to affirmative procedure; and that the Government should also present Parliament a report concerning income support. I will deal with the issue of affirmative powers first. As noble Lords will be aware, the Delegated Powers Committee has looked carefully at the Bill and concluded that Clause 7 should be subject to affirmative procedure. Based on that advice, we will table a government amendment on Report to make Clause 7 subject to affirmative procedure. I hope that noble Lords will be satisfied at least on that point. The second part of the amendment would require the production of a report before the order can be made. I am not convinced that this is necessary, especially as we have now agreed that the order will be subject to affirmative procedure process. I know that noble Lords have been concerned about the position of carers when income support is abolished; I am happy to reiterate our commitment that carers will not be moved from income support until we have agreed a clear and detailed plan setting out how we will reform the benefit system over the longer term and how the particular needs of carers will be recognised. Invariably that process will involve consultation with carers themselves and their representative groups. The noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, and the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, have given notice that they intend to oppose that Clause 7 stand part of the Bill. Clause 7 is important as it sets out how we will perform and simplify the structure of the benefit system. It provides the basis for a streamlined system in which there is no longer a separate benefit called "income support". That may seem a very radical change but it is the logical step in a process which has been continuing for some time. When it was first introduced, income support was a catch-all benefit for everyone who satisfied an income test. Over the years, a number of new benefits have been introduced to provide support for different groups: income-based jobseeker’s allowance for unemployed people, pension credit for older people and, most recently, income-related employment and support allowance for sick and disabled people. In addition, lone parents with older children now receive jobseeker’s allowance rather than income support. Once those changes have come in, income support will serve a much narrower purpose than was intended; it will be a benefit mainly for lone parents with young children, carers and a number of much smaller groups, some of which the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, referred to. In those circumstances we do not think it makes sense to retain income support as a separate benefit. Of course, people who receive income support will still need help. In Clause 3 we are amending jobseeker’s allowance to ensure that they can get it. The amendments to Clause 3 will create a new form of jobseeker’s allowance which will, for all intents and purposes, provide the same comprehensive safety net currently provided by income support. Clause 7, therefore, provides a mechanism for abolishing income support where there are no longer any groups of people who require it. Although we have no definite date to do that by and although we have said that we shall do it only once resources allow, we still believe that this is the right time to take these powers. We shall need to look carefully at how the change will fit with other changes which are underway, in particular the transfer of sick and disabled people from income support to the employment and support allowance, but we believe that it is important to set out our clear intention to abolish income support and, thereby, move towards a system based on two main benefits for people of working age: employment and support allowance and jobseeker’s allowance. That will be a significant step towards a simpler and more flexible system of benefits in which people are treated as individuals and not categorised by benefit labels. In the longer term, we may go further and get to a position where there is a single benefit for people of working age. However, reforms of that magnitude can only be taken in stages and removing income support is the obvious next step. I hope that noble Lords agree that it is right for the Government to make their intentions to reform the benefit system clear and that making the provisions to abolish income support subject to the affirmative procedure will provide the necessary level of scrutiny. I hope that they will also agree that a report to Parliament will offer little in the way of additional scrutiny as the key discussions and decisions will already have taken place by the time a report is introduced. A number of specific additional points were raised. The noble Countess, Lady Mar, asked whether we should change the name. Perhaps in the longer term we may move to an entirely new single working-age benefit and at that stage we may look at the title.