Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Bill

Let us hope that I can shed some light. The noble Viscount, Lord Eccles, raised an interesting point about the location of work and training that is undertaken as part of the apprenticeship arrangements that we are putting in place for England. We have been clear that this legislation is intended to create a statutory framework for England, and a separate statutory framework is being created for Wales. We have to recognise devolution. This subsection and the Welsh mirror in Clause 5(8) are intended to take account of the different apprenticeship systems that will be operating in England and Wales, and there are some differences. These are set out in the Specification of Apprenticeship Standards for England—SASE—and the Specification of Apprenticeship Standards for Wales—SASW. Although both countries will have an apprenticeship agreement with the same prescribed terms, there will be slight variations in the apprenticeship being undertaken. This subsection is intended to reflect the fact that the English certifying authority should issue certificates only to apprentices working wholly or mainly in England. Clause 5(8) provides that the Welsh certifying authority should be issuing certificates only under the same circumstances in Wales. Therefore, we need to retain this clause to avoid any overlap of responsibilities. I understand the noble Viscount’s concern about companies that operate globally and that may want to deploy English apprentices overseas for some of their employment and training. There is no reason why they should not do that. However, in practice, I suspect that very few apprentices will be deployed in this way. The vast majority will be working under an apprenticeship agreement which will be covered under employment law of England and Wales, and we need to be clear about where the responsibility lies. In answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, we recognise that there will be across-the-border activities. We would not rule that out, but we must recognise that different authorities are involved. We do not rule out some flexibility; we recognise that there might be circumstances when, for part of the time, employment and training might be across the border in Wales or, the other way round, in England—and, possibly, part of the time it would be overseas. But we think that there is sufficient flexibility, and hope that on the basis of that explanation the noble Viscount will feel able to withdraw his amendment.