Marine and Coastal Access Bill [HL]

This has been an interesting debate. We have heard arguments that it is essential to ensure appropriate local authority representation. In the previous group of amendments, the Committee was concerned to ensure that where there are different interests within the fishing community, they should also be reflected in IFCAs. We have also heard about the need to ensure that expertise about flora and fauna and other issues should also be reflected. The noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, is worried about the size of the authorities, which I also well understand. Getting the balance right is not easy. We hope that we are steering ourselves through this rather choppy water and have come to sensible conclusions. Although we do not spell out in the Bill what percentage of members will be from local authorities—we think it much better to embrace that within orders—we intend to ensure that local authority members will constitute up to one-third of the inshore fisheries and conservation authorities. The noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, is quite right: I listed 12 authorities which will be constituted in the north-west IFCA if we accept option 2, which is the creation of six IFC districts. Indeed, in the southern and western districts, there will be a larger number of local authorities. The noble Lord, Lord Greaves, asked: why one-third? There is no absolute science in this, but essentially, we want to get a balance between the various interests who have considerable knowledge and expertise to bring to the table. One-third membership, allowing each relevant authority and the other interests to be members of the IFCA, will enable us to get the balance right. We will discuss this later, but because of the local authority funding responsibility for inshore fisheries and conservation authorities, the voting provisions in Clause 171 are included. Although they will be in a minority, local authority members can vote to veto their inshore fisheries and conservation authority budgets. There is the safeguard that, in essence, although local authorities form one-third of the membership, they cannot be dictated to in relation to the budget. I come to Amendment A230B; I think I have really dealt with the matter. It is made clear in Clause 177, on interpretation, that "relevant council" in relation to an IFC district means the council for a local authority area falling within that district. Earlier in the interpretation clause, it is made clear that local authority area means a single-tier or upper-tier local authority. That is absolutely clear. The noble Lord, Lord Greaves, rightly asked why we cannot put that in the Bill. I shook my head because of the possibility that definitions of categories of local authorities in local government legislation may change in the future. We want some flexibility to provide the option of excluding local authorities where it is sensible to do so. I stress that any such exclusion would need to be agreed with the affected local authorities, and it is not proposed to exclude representation from any local authority that is required to fund the inshore fisheries and conservation authority. Amendment A230C concerns who appoints the local authority representation. It is implicit in the clause that council members will be appointed by their own council. No other method of appointment is provided. I can reassure the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, on that point. The local authorities themselves will be invited to make the appointment. Amendment A230D would remove the requirement for an order setting up an inshore fisheries and conservation authority district to specify who should appoint the other persons appointed to the committee, as set out in Clause 147(1)(c). I have made it clear that the other persons are members from Natural England, the Environment Agency and the MMO. This detail will be set out in the orders that set up the districts. It gives us some flexibility in case there are changes in the nature of those bodies in the future. On the question of changing "physiographical" to "geomorphological", we have spent so much time debating this Bill in Committee that noble Lords have, of course, sometimes observed differences in approach to different parts of the Bill. There is a very good reason for that. I think we debated only last week why "physiographical" is mentioned in this part of the Bill and "geomorphological" is used elsewhere. This is because "physiographical" is consistent with Section 5A of the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967. However, in view of what the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, has said, I will check between Committee and Report to make sure that I am satisfied that, notwithstanding the different terminology, there is consistency here. Perhaps I could come back to the noble Lord on that important point. The noble Baroness, Lady Miller, raised the question of expertise in marine environmental matters including the conservation of flora and fauna. The MMO will appoint those members who are best placed to contribute the necessary expertise to IFCAs. In practice, it is highly likely that any person appointed for expertise in flora or fauna would have expertise in—or knowledge of—both flora and fauna, though it may not be needed in every case. We want to keep options open and retain flexibility, so we would not want to exclude any potential appointee with important knowledge and skills in flora or fauna, but not both, from being members of the IFCA, although I very much take the substantive point which the noble Baroness makes in her amendment. This is an important matter. I go back to the point made by, I think, the noble Lords, Lord Wallace and Lord Tyler, about members serving on existing sea fisheries committees being concerned about the future. I well understand that. We have been gratified by the help that we have received from the existing committees to take forward our views. I understand why various interested parties may be concerned about the future, and clearly we are moving into new circumstances, but the best reassurance that I can give is to say that the IFCAs will be set up with a great deal of care and that guidance will be very carefully brought forward to advise and guide the MMO in making appointments. We very much understand that people of good calibre are wanted. We want a balanced membership, and we want the members to work together. This debate has been helpful in informing the Government of some of the aspects of guidance that we need to give to the MMO on membership of the IFCAs.