Marine and Coastal Access Bill [HL]

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Monday, 16 March 2009, in the House of Lords.

Marine and Coastal Access Bill (HL). Lords Committee stage ninth day. Clauses 145 to 199 agreed to, with clauses 147, 181 and 189 agreed to as amended. Schedule 14 agreed to as amended. Schedule 15 agreed to.

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

709 c18-58,81-108

Session

2008-09

Department

Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Marine and Coastal Access Bill (HL). Explanatory Notes HL Bill 1-EN also published.
Thursday, 4 December 2008
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 709 c106-8 (Link to this contribution) First, I pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, for her tremendous work for the fishing ind...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c104-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to noble Lords who have spoken on the issue. I declare an interest as I am inordinatel...

Show all contributions (135)

Earl Cathcart | 709 c104 (Link to this contribution) This issue is one where the competing interests about which we have spoken so much have come to the ...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 709 c100 (Link to this contribution) Clause 193: Power to make orders as to fisheries for shellfish Amendment A247 A247: Clause 193, pa...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 709 c100-2 (Link to this contribution) I make no apology for the fact that this amendment may take a little time, because it concerns two m...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 709 c100 (Link to this contribution) No one could be churlish about the Government correcting their homework, so we welcome the amendment...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c96-7 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the noble Lady, who has been very patient. I have spotted her on a number of occasion...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c97 (Link to this contribution) That is a fair point, which the noble Duke also made; the measures in the Bill have been broadly wel...

Lady Saltoun of Abernethy | 709 c97 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to stop the present legislation; I just want a consolidation Bill to follow.

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 709 c98 (Link to this contribution) Clause 186: Regulation of nets and other fishing gear Amendment A245A A245A: Clause 186, page 108,...

Lady Saltoun of Abernethy | 709 c97 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for what he has said. I am not going to press any of these amendments,...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 709 c98 (Link to this contribution) My name is attached to Amendment A245A. We debated these issues in an earlier debate. The noble Lord...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 709 c98 (Link to this contribution) There is a series of amendments in this group, which I will briefly speak to. Amendment 245A has ech...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 709 c99-100 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the opposition Front Bench for its support and to the Minister for his response and...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c99 (Link to this contribution) I certainly agree with the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, that it is important to regulate fishing to ens...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c100 (Link to this contribution) Clause 189: Power to restrict fishing for sea fish Amendment A246 A246: Clause 189, page 109, line...

Baroness Young of Old Scone | 709 c37 (Link to this contribution) Clause 149: Management of inshore fisheries Amendment A232 A232: Clause 149, page 90, line 42, at ...

Lord Greaves | 709 c36-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that response and I am satisfied. I was also satisfied with the Minister’s answer ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c36 (Link to this contribution) I think that I used the words "around one-third". There might be circumstances when, for some reason...

Lord Kingsland | 709 c39-40 (Link to this contribution) The right way to approach Clause 149 is to have a text which, as far as possible, mirrors Clause 2, ...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 709 c38-9 (Link to this contribution) Before I address the amendment moved by the noble Baroness, I should like to apologise for the rathe...

Lord Brougham and Vaux | 709 c38 (Link to this contribution) Within this grouping, if Amendment A232ZA is agreed, I shall not be able to call Amendment A232A by ...

Baroness Young of Old Scone | 709 c37-8 (Link to this contribution) It is axiomatic that we have a fairly lengthy debate when we get to discuss the duties of any body i...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c42-4 (Link to this contribution) This is one of those debates that we have had on a number of occasions. That is understandable, beca...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 709 c40-1 (Link to this contribution) It is clear from the amendments tabled in this group that there is a considerable overlap, as the no...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c44 (Link to this contribution) Yes, but that does not mean that one should not take those matters into account when debating the am...

Baroness Young of Old Scone | 709 c44 (Link to this contribution) For the information of the Committee, all the provisions that the Minister has just mentioned are ab...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c45 (Link to this contribution) That sounded like a robust defence of the words in Clause 149(1) and (2). In a sense, the Bill seeks...

Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 709 c44-5 (Link to this contribution) I do not wish to prolong this much further, but when the Government are considering this issue and d...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c45-6 (Link to this contribution) I certainly understand the question of hierarchy and I have agreed to have a look at this matter. I ...

Lord Kingsland | 709 c45 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord for his response to my noble friend Lady Carnegy of Lour. I tak...

Baroness Young of Old Scone | 709 c46 (Link to this contribution) I thank noble Lords for raising their concerns in line with mine to ensure that conservation and the...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 709 c46 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his responses to the amendments I have spoken to and for his offer of discu...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c46 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Baroness not agree that one of the arguments is that due to change the in membership ...

Baroness Young of Old Scone | 709 c46-7 (Link to this contribution) I accept that the revised membership of the committees provides a better balance, but my experience ...

Duke of Montrose | 709 c47 (Link to this contribution) Amendment A233 A233: Clause 149, page 91, line 8, after the first "to" insert— (a) the conservation...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 709 c51 (Link to this contribution) Clause 152: Provision that may be made by byelaw Amendment A234 A234: Clause 152, page 93, line 2,...

Duke of Montrose | 709 c51 (Link to this contribution) I thank all Members of the Committee who have participated in the debate. Having had a long debate e...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c49-51 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords for their contributions on this important amendment, and particular...

Lord Nickson | 709 c49 (Link to this contribution) Like my noble friend Lord Dear, perhaps I should declare an interest in salmon. I have fishing inter...

Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 709 c48-9 (Link to this contribution) As this is a standalone amendment, I would like to speak very briefly to it. The noble Lord, Lord De...

Lord Dear | 709 c47-8 (Link to this contribution) In speaking to this Amendment, which stands in my name and in that of other noble Lords, I need to r...

Duke of Montrose | 709 c47 (Link to this contribution) In the name of my noble friend Lord Taylor of Holbeach, I beg to move Amendment A233. This amendment...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 709 c52 (Link to this contribution) This amendment deals with the by-laws that the IFCAs can make. In particular, it deals with what wil...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 709 c53 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to the amendments standing in my name in the group. The noble Lord, Lord Taylor, has a...

Lord Taylor of Warwick | 709 c52-3 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness’s amendment draws attention to the wording of Clause 152, in particular subsectio...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 709 c56 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt the Minister, but the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, has a good point here about ...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c55 (Link to this contribution) The by-laws are subject to the consideration of the Secretary of State. If we were dealing with an i...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 709 c56 (Link to this contribution) We will be very grateful for the Minister’s further thoughts on that. Of course, sea fisheries commi...

Lord Greaves | 709 c54 (Link to this contribution) If the provisions in the Bill on making by-laws are all-encompassing within the broad purposes of th...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c53-4 (Link to this contribution) If I may say so, that is also the thinking behind the Government’s approach to the Bill and the clau...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 709 c55 (Link to this contribution) My point was that paragraphs (a), (b) and (c) under head 3 in Clause 152(5) relate to the making of ...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c54-5 (Link to this contribution) The lists reflect the consultation that we had on the Bill in the crucial areas where by-laws are li...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 709 c81 (Link to this contribution) This amendment seeks to discover from the Government why the powers of sea fisheries officers have b...

Duke of Montrose | 709 c81 (Link to this contribution) It is interesting to consider the powers of enforcement officers and I was glad to hear what the nob...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 709 c58 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that explanation of the difference. He mentioned in particular the problem ...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 709 c81 (Link to this contribution) Clause 162: Powers of IFC officers Amendment A235 A235: Clause 162, page 98, line 16, at end inser...

Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 709 c82 (Link to this contribution) Clause 165: Duty of co-operation Amendment A237 A237: Clause 165, page 100, line 4, at end insert—...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c81-2 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness for raising this matter. She is right to focus on enforcement an...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 709 c82 (Link to this contribution) Everyone made the idea of hot pursuit sound rather attractive. I thank the Minister for that explana...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 709 c56-7 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to a corresponding amendment, Amendment A234D. They are by way of "compare and co...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c57-8 (Link to this contribution) I commend the noble Lord for his alertness in comparing different parts of the Bill and seeking to p...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 709 c56 (Link to this contribution) Clause 153: Emergency byelaws Amendment A234C A234C: Clause 153, page 94, line 1, leave out paragr...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 709 c87 (Link to this contribution) Clause 170: Supplementary powers Amendment A238 A238: Clause 170, page 101, line 4, leave out "But...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 709 c87 (Link to this contribution) The purpose of this amendment is to find out why the Government are determined that IFCAs will not h...

Lord Greaves | 709 c87-8 (Link to this contribution) I have three amendments in this group and shall speak also to whether Clause 171 should stand part o...

Earl Cathcart | 709 c88 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness, Lady Miller, was quite right to probe the question of funding, but I am less tha...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c88-91 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to noble Lords for tabling the amendments, which I hope are probing. I will do my best...

Lord Greaves | 709 c91 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for what the Minister said about my amendments. In practice, he is quite right; the fa...

Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 709 c83-4 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to most of the amendments in this group which address specifically matters concerning ...

Duke of Montrose | 709 c85 (Link to this contribution) Following the noble Lord’s introduction to Amendment A237, I should say that we do not propose to mo...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c85-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to noble Lords. I have a little information that I wish to impart with regard to one a...

Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 709 c86 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that intriguing reply. I am pleased that he has taken on board the point ab...

Lord Greaves | 709 c93 (Link to this contribution) Solar-powered, of course. My only problem is with the Minister saying that, on capital spending, he ...

Lord Greaves | 709 c92 (Link to this contribution) The intervention of the noble Lord, Lord Greenway, put out the vision of all those smiley speed warn...

Lord Tyler | 709 c93 (Link to this contribution) With solar power?

Lord Greenway | 709 c92 (Link to this contribution) Patrol boats may be expensive to build but they are also very expensive to run. I cannot remember th...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c92 (Link to this contribution) I accept that, which is why I gave the illustration of the present, successful collaboration to meet...

Lord Greenway | 709 c92 (Link to this contribution) Something that the Minister said just a moment ago sounded a few warning bells. It would worry me if...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c92 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Greenway, must tread carefully. He will remember that I have had to answer a fe...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c91-2 (Link to this contribution) I will certainly have time to reflect on it before Report stage, so I might have more to add. But I ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c94 (Link to this contribution) Clause 181: Offences Amendment A244A A244A: Clause 181, page 105, line 25, at end insert— "(4A) No...

Lady Saltoun of Abernethy | 709 c94-6 (Link to this contribution) Clause 185: Size limits for sea fish Debate on whether Clause 185 should stand part of the Bill. ...

Duke of Montrose | 709 c96 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lady, Lady Saltoun, has tabled extensive amendments which have a wonderful ratio...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c93 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move Amendment A241. Amendments A241A, A241B, A244A and A376 are also in this group; these ...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 709 c94 (Link to this contribution) In our view, these amendments improve the Bill. Amendment A241 agreed.

Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c94 (Link to this contribution) Amendments A241A and A241B A241A: Schedule 14, page 266, line 14, leave out "17" and insert "17A (i...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 709 c93 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Greenway, and my noble friend for contributing to this debate. The Gove...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c93 (Link to this contribution) Schedule 14: Inshore fisheries and conservation authorities: amendments A241: Schedule 14, page 265...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 709 c32 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak briefly to my Amendment A231, which is grouped with those of my noble friend. This ame...

Lord Brabazon of Tara | 709 c31 (Link to this contribution) The amendment should read page 89, line 20, at end insert the words printed on the Marshalled List.

Earl Cathcart | 709 c35 (Link to this contribution) I want more clarification about the numbers. I still cannot get into my mind how this will work. If,...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c33-5 (Link to this contribution) This has been an interesting debate. We have heard arguments that it is essential to ensure appropri...

Earl Cathcart | 709 c32-3 (Link to this contribution) With the first three amendments in this group, the noble Lord seems concerned to ensure that the num...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c36 (Link to this contribution) I have already said that I will look at this matter to ensure that we have the appropriate consisten...

Lord Greaves | 709 c36 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that response. In my view, the difference is that one word is modern and the other...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c35-6 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to ensure that we consider what has been said today. It would be particularly helpful bec...

Lord Greaves | 709 c36 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure whether I should apologise to the Committee for parading my lifetime amateur interest ...

Duke of Montrose | 709 c18-9 (Link to this contribution) This amendment, tabled in the name of my noble friend Lord Taylor, explores the Government’s intenti...

Duke of Montrose | 709 c18 (Link to this contribution) Clause 145: Establishment of inshore fisheries and conservation districts Amendment A228 A228: Cla...

Lord Greaves | 709 c30 (Link to this contribution) Amendment A230A A230A: Clause 147, page 189, line 20, at end insert "provided that the number of me...

Lord Greaves | 709 c30-1 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to my other amendments in this group: Amendments 230B to 230E. The group also inc...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 709 c29 (Link to this contribution) I thank Members of the Committee who have taken part in the debate, particularly for the general sup...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 709 c30 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister. It might be useful to have the matter clarified between now and Repor...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c30 (Link to this contribution) Amendment A230 A230: Clause 147, page 89, line 10, leave out from "as" to end of line 12 and insert...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c27 (Link to this contribution) Yes. I would be happy to send a note to noble Lords on the number of members on the sea fisheries co...

Lord Tyler | 709 c27-8 (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend Lord Wallace of Tankerness responds, I would like to say a little bit more ab...

Lord Tyler | 709 c29 (Link to this contribution) If the Minister thought I was letting rip, I am sorry that I gave that impression. I occasionally le...

Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 709 c27 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister say anything about the cost of all this as compared to the present arrangements und...

Earl Cathcart | 709 c24 (Link to this contribution) The amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, would include in the Bill what the Government are pro...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c25-7 (Link to this contribution) This is an important group. Clearly, we want IFCAs to be successful in terms of having the right bal...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c22 (Link to this contribution) The consultation closes on 22 April and clearly a little time needs to be spent on it. If I were to ...

Duke of Montrose | 709 c23 (Link to this contribution) I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to the debate, and I thank the Minister for answering s...

Lord Tyler | 709 c22 (Link to this contribution) I wish to add this point. The consultation is critical to the way in which we approach some of these...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 709 c23 (Link to this contribution) Clause 147: Membership and proceedings of IFC authorities Amendment A228A A228A: Clause 147, page ...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 709 c23-4 (Link to this contribution) This amendment relates to the composition of the inshore fisheries and conservation authorities. At ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c23 (Link to this contribution) I cannot let the noble Duke get away with that. If I were to pontificate today and say that I prefer...

Duke of Montrose | 709 c23 (Link to this contribution) I understand where the Minister is placed, but he has raised some interesting questions about what t...

Lord Greaves | 709 c22 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister not accept that if there is to be an IFCA that includes a large area of the south ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c22 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is right that on the map they look like two separate pieces of water, given that one ...

Lord Tyler | 709 c22 (Link to this contribution) When does the Minister anticipate that not just the consultation period but the Government’s conside...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c22 (Link to this contribution) I—

Lord Greaves | 709 c19-20 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Duke for tabling the amendment because it raises important issues. The noble Duke ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c20 (Link to this contribution) I thought the noble Baroness, Lady Miller, was going to be tempted to intervene on that extraordinar...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 709 c20 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has finally tempted me. I thoroughly agree with my noble friend; the north coast has di...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c20 (Link to this contribution) I well remember our debates about the Severn and whether there should be a joint marine plan. Whatev...

Duke of Montrose | 709 c20 (Link to this contribution) How many local authorities are involved in these larger areas?

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c20-2 (Link to this contribution) Annexe E, on page 21 of the consultation document, lists out Option 2, the creation of six IFC distr...

Baroness Wilcox | 709 c102-4 (Link to this contribution) I support the noble Baroness, Lady Miller of Chilthorne Domer, in her amendment tonight. I declare m...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c56 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord. Let me assure him that he did not interrupt me, because I had finis...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c28-9 (Link to this contribution) I was surprised that the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, let rip like that, because I was really agreeing wi...

Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 709 c41-2 (Link to this contribution) Amendment A240 is in my name and that of my noble friend. It is in the same grouping and would inser...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 709 c91 (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for that. I was just giving the Minister a chance to explain how it would be...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c100 (Link to this contribution) In moving the amendment, I shall speak briefly to the other amendments in this group. The amendments...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 709 c30 (Link to this contribution) Is the noble Lord prepared to look at the explanation of what a fishing community means given in Cla...

Subjects

Devolved matters

Conservation

Coastal areas

Crown lands and estates

Byelaws

Devon

Crown Estate

Finance

Fisheries

Environment protection

Expenditure