Marine and Coastal Access Bill [HL]

It is a working definition, but that does not mean that it fits into the Bill in the way that the noble Lord has indicated. The concept was a good deal vaguer than that, and the definition lacked elegance. I hear what my noble friend says when he insists that he supports the principle: I do not for one moment suggest otherwise. I was just sharing with him a slight hesitation about the inelegance of the language. That is because it was designed for another role, not for the purposes of definition in the Bill. The landscape quality objectives—as expressed in the language of Europe—were to be implemented through the Council of Europe. This Bill is more precise than the rather vague exhortations contained in that definition. Yet when all noble Lords, who have thought seriously and with great passion about this matter, come to the definition which will fit within the Bill—I listened carefully to every speech—I heard no answer. Inevitably in its prescriptions, the Bill has aspects of clear definition. How could it be otherwise when the Bill is premised on the assumption of serious scientific evidence? That is the basis of this conservation measure. Most of the time, noble Lords, speaking with great passion, are equally assertive about the precision and scientific basis of the conservation measure which this represents. Therefore, they should not be surprised if, from the Dispatch Box, I am somewhat reluctant to take on board an amendment which introduces one concept called "seascapes", when it is not entirely clear how we would define that in legislation and we certainly do not have an amendment which does that. We could enjoin on the Government the concept, "Let them find a definition". Of course, in general terms, we accept the principle put forward with regard to the Council of Europe, but we too have difficulties with this. I present the other problem. I listened very closely to what my noble friend Lord Judd said—it always pays to listen carefully to my noble friend. I heard what he said about the national parks. I think the noble Baroness, Lady Miller, reinforced the point, as did the noble Baroness, Lady Hooper. When has it been suggested that the national parks, created as my noble friend said by a most reforming and radical Government after the Second World War, have been under threat because they do not have a definition of "seascape" from their perspective? It does not exist in legislation and I am not sure that noble Lords have proven the case for it to exist in this legislation. A great deal of thought is needed before the Government can be persuaded on this point. National parks have not been threatened. The noble Lord, Lord Livsey, took me on a little tour round the Pembrokeshire Coast National Park. I walk round the coastal pathway of Cornwall; I have been to Snowdonia; I have been to areas where the national parks are contiguous with other land; I have even been to an area which I do not think is a national park, but my noble friend Lord Howarth is quite keen on it; namely, the Norfolk and East Anglian coastline. Has anyone suggested that any of those areas is under threat—that it cannot protect its interests or cannot protect its areas of outstanding natural beauty because it does not have a definition of "seascape"?