Marine and Coastal Access Bill [HL]

I just do not see it that way. I was about to say that we are fully committed to ensuring that there is consistency between the marine policy statements and the national policy statements and that policies for the marine environment are included in the national policy statements where that is relevant. The same administration will be concerned with producing marine policy statements and national policy statements. There is absolutely no reason at all why there should be any inconsistency between what is in the national policy statement and what is in the marine policy statement. I turn to another point that is of concern to noble Lords. In a sense, there is a fear that somehow the MMO is being sidelined by the arrangements contained within the Planning Act. The IPC will license nationally significant projects, both on land and in the marine area. However, let us be clear that we expect it to handle around 45 applications each year, covering energy, transport and water and waste projects across both the onshore and offshore regions, while the MMO will be dealing with hundreds of other activities and developments taking place each year at sea, the cumulative impact of which are extremely significant. The MMO will also play a key role in advising the IPC on its decisions. We will take steps to ensure that the two bodies work well together. The noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, asked about the threshold, which we also debated extensively during the passage of the Planning Bill. She will note that, being set at 100 megawatts, the threshold is in contrast to the 50 megawatts that applies on land, because renewable generating stations in the marine area are larger than those on land. It seems sensible that the threshold at which projects are treated differently, and become subject to the IPC regime, should be set higher. For the near future, most wave and tidal developments will be smaller than 100 megawatts. Those smaller projects are unlikely to be subject to many of the challenges faced by their larger equivalents. So far, the Department of Energy and Climate Change and its predecessor have licensed 23 offshore renewable energy installations. If the MMO and IPC had been operational at the time, four wind farms and two wave and tidal installations—at a combined generating capacity of 356 megawatts—would have fallen to the MMO. Amendments 95 and 99 would amend the Planning Act in a slightly different way: first, by adding the MMO to those to be consulted before an applicant submits an application to the Infrastructure Planning Commission and including it in the local impact report procedures set out in the Planning Act; secondly, by giving the power to the MMO to decide whether national policy statements should have effect in the UK marine area; and, lastly, by requiring the Secretary of State to have regard to the MPS and any marine plans when preparing or amending national policy statements. I know that in our debates on the Planning Bill it was explained that certain persons who must be consulted on pre-application consultations will be prescribed in secondary legislation flowing from that Act. I am happy to reiterate to the noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, my intent to include the Marine Management Organisation within these regulations. That process has already begun with the publication late last month of the consultation on regulations under the Planning Act to make the Marine and Fisheries Agency, and subsequently the MMO, a consultee in relation to national policy statements. The consultation on the second package of regulations, which will deal with the pre-application consultation that is the subject of Amendment 95, will be published fairly shortly—in the spring, I am told, although I am not entirely sure what a Defra or a DECC spring is. I can get some more information about that. On that basis, I hope that the noble Earl will agree that we do not need to amend the Planning Act to include this provision. I know that the noble Earl also wished to include the Marine Management Organisation in Section 60 of the Planning Act 2008, which makes provision regarding local impact reports. The amendments would require the IPC to give written notice to the Marine Management Organisation that it has accepted an application for a nationally significant infrastructure project that relates to coastal or offshore areas and to invite the MMO to submit a local impact report on that application. I ought to tell the Committee that we debated this issue during the passage of the Planning Bill. The provision for the Infrastructure Planning Commission to consider local impact reports is to give due prominence to democratically elected local councillors, who represent the views of local people affected by the proposal. For that reason, the MMO should not be treated in the same way; it is clearly a different type of organisation with a different remit. That does not mean to say that the MMO will not be involved—far from it. We intend to prescribe the MMO as a statutory ““interested party”” under the examination process that we will consult on later this year. As I have said, the Infrastructure Planning Commission will also draw on the Marine Management Organisation’s expertise when assessing proposals for nationally significant infrastructure—for instance, when it considers which conditions might be appropriate in order to mitigate any negative impacts on the marine environment. Details of how the Infrastructure Planning Commission will receive advice from the Marine Management Organisation will be covered in guidance under the Planning Act and through a memorandum of understanding. In addition, amendments made to the Planning Act by paragraph 3 of Schedule 8 to the Bill enable the Infrastructure Planning Commission to deem marine licences to have been issued as part of development consent under the Planning Act, if such a licence would be required for that project. Those marine licences will operate as if the Marine Management Organisation had issued them. Importantly, the MMO will then be responsible for monitoring and enforcing them; it could also add conditions to deemed licences as new information came to light. The first proposal in Amendment 99 would prevent a national policy statement from applying to the marine area unless it had been approved by the Marine Management Organisation. In relation to this amendment, the noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, asked who would say no. Here, we come to an important point. I am strongly resistant to this amendment, because we have to be clear that the national policy statements will state government policy—setting out the national need for infrastructure and providing a framework for decisions on nationally significant projects by the Infrastructure Planning Commission—while the Marine Management Organisation will be a delivery body and a non-departmental public body. As we debated on the previous amendments, the MMO’s role and expertise in marine matters will, of course, be hugely important. However, it will not set government policy for the marine area. The development of that policy, including the marine policy statement and the adoption of marine plans, is the responsibility of the policy authorities—the marine plan authorities—or, in other words, the Government, but not the Marine Management Organisation. For that reason, I strongly resist the idea that the MMO should be given the power of veto over decisions of Ministers to apply a national policy statement to the marine environment. The second proposal in Amendment 99 relates to whether the Secretary of State should have regard to the marine policy statement and plans when developing national policy statements. I am glad that the Bill already imposes such a duty: Clause 56(3) requires that public authorities, including government departments and Ministers, have regard to marine policy statements and plans when taking any decisions that are, "““capable of affecting … the UK marine area””." That will include any decisions by Ministers to designate or amend a national policy statement that may apply to the marine area. Finally, I return to the fascinating question from the noble Earl, Lord Cathcart: who, in government, will say no? In essence, preparing the national policy statement and marine policy statement is a matter for the Government as a whole. It will be a corporate exercise, which is why it will be essential to have consistency between those statements. This will not work unless there is consistency. That is why I have confidence that the arrangements in the Bill and in the Planning Act will work and be consistent with government policy on planning and our intent with regard to the environment. I know that noble Lords feel strongly about this matter, but so do I. We need to be very cautious before we move away from the careful arrangements in the Planning Act and the Bill.