Marine and Coastal Access Bill [HL]

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Monday, 23 February 2009, in the House of Lords.

Marine and Coastal Access Bill (HL). Lords Committee stage fifth day. Clauses 50 to 65 agreed to, with clauses 57, 59, 62 and 63 agreed to as amended. Schedule 6 agreed to as amended. Clause 66 under consideration.

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

708 c11-73,80-96

Session

2008-09

Department

Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Marine and Coastal Access Bill (HL). Explanatory Notes HL Bill 1-EN also published.
Thursday, 4 December 2008
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c21-2 (Link to this contribution) On my amendments, the Minister seemed almost to be saying that one would recognise an area that is a...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c19-20 (Link to this contribution) As we have heard, this group contains many detailed amendments which raise interesting issues. We ar...

Show all contributions (141)

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c20-1 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to noble Lords for their amendments. I am sorry to hear that the noble Lord, Lord...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 708 c20 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to speak to my amendment and to try to answer the questions which the noble Duke, the Duk...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 708 c16-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply, as indeed I thank the noble Duke, the Duke of Montrose, and my n...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c15-6 (Link to this contribution) The noble Duke is berating me for missing out the importance of coal. I apologise to him. I am well ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c17 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89BZB 89BZB: Schedule 6, page 230, line 10, leave out from ““region”” to ““the”” in line ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c15 (Link to this contribution) Yes. Is the noble Duke asking whether coal is covered?

Duke of Montrose | 708 c15 (Link to this contribution) When we talk about reserved matters under the Scotland Act, coal always gets missed out. It is not e...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c14-5 (Link to this contribution) This has been a very interesting discussion. I will start with the proposal from the noble Lord, Lor...

Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 708 c14 (Link to this contribution) I fully support the amendment proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Tankerness. I would like s...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c13-4 (Link to this contribution) The amendment shows an interesting approach by the noble Lord. While at first sight the strict wordi...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 708 c11 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89BZA 89BZA: After Clause 49, insert the following new Clause— ““Marine plan for Scottish...

Baroness Hooper | 708 c23 (Link to this contribution) No, my Lords.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c24 (Link to this contribution) So, we are now debating Amendments 89J, 89JZA and 89JZC.

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c23 (Link to this contribution) The next amendment on the groupings would have been under Amendment 89JZB, which is why I hesitated....

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c24 (Link to this contribution) The information about amendments which were not to be moved was, I hoped, circulated earlier—otherwi...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c24 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, raises interesting points in these amendments, for which I have muc...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c24-7 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness raises the question of whether every marine plan should be subject to independent...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c27 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness is right to raise the point. I was saying that because there will be fewer people...

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c27-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his long response, and will leave it to my noble friend Lady Mille...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c22 (Link to this contribution) Amendments 89BZC and 89BZD 89BZC: Schedule 6, page 230, line 12, leave out from ““region”” to first...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c22 (Link to this contribution) I think that the noble Baroness is inviting me to say that this is a common sense approach and I end...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c23 (Link to this contribution) Amendments 89CB and 89CC 89CB: Schedule 6, page 232, line 4, leave out ““by, or”” 89CC: Schedule ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c23 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89FZB 89FZB: Schedule 6, page 233, line 8, leave out ““by, or”” Amendment 89FZB agreed. ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c22 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89BD 89BD: Schedule 6, page 230, line 21, leave out sub-paragraph (3) Amendment 89BD agr...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c22-3 (Link to this contribution) Amendments 89BG to 89BN 89BG: Schedule 6, page 230, leave out lines 28 and 29 and insert— ““““local...

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c23 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89J deals with whether there should be a mandatory independent investigation of all marine...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c23 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89HB 89HB: Schedule 6, page 234, line 25, leave out ““by, or”” Amendment 89HB agreed. A...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 708 c32-3 (Link to this contribution) The amendments are essentially probing and follow on, in the first respect, from the recent debate a...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 708 c32 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89JA 89JA: Schedule 6, page 235, line 34, at end insert ““or a marine plan for the Scotti...

Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 708 c33-4 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to spoil the party. This amendment refers directly to the Scottish situation, but also...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c33 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Tankerness, for explaining his amendments. I was waiting wit...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c31-2 (Link to this contribution) I also have three other government amendments in this group—two to Schedule 6 and two to Clause 57. ...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c37 (Link to this contribution) I indicated that an application challenging the MPS or the marine plan for the offshore region could...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c34-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to noble Lords who have spoken in this short debate. I have been handed a most useful ...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c35 (Link to this contribution) I must thank the Minister for the full and useful explanation he has been giving on some of the matt...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c35-7 (Link to this contribution) The answer is yes, and that is without consulting my magic document. I believe that this will also h...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 708 c37 (Link to this contribution) I am trying to find what part of the amendment the Minister finds objectionable or would cut off the...

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c29 (Link to this contribution) I will be brief. Amendment 89JZB would leave out paragraph 15(2) in Schedule 6. I did not move my ot...

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c29 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89JZB 89JZB: Schedule 6, page 235, line 31, leave out sub-paragraph (2)

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c28 (Link to this contribution) I have long thought that those of us involved in politics should have a better training in psycholog...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c28 (Link to this contribution) We all recognise that a lot of different interests will come to the fore in the development of any m...

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c31 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that explanation. I would like to make it clear that my aim is not to disturb the ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c31 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89JZD 89JZD: Schedule 6, page 235, line 34, leave out ““relate”” and insert ““include pro...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c30-1 (Link to this contribution) There is one point about which I still feel a little uneasy. We have reserved matters in the offshor...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c31 (Link to this contribution) We would be in a parlous state indeed if we reached that position. That is why we have built in, thr...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c29 (Link to this contribution) I am interested to see this amendment, moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, but if I understand...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c29-30 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness for the amendment, in which she seeks to clarify certain aspects...

Baroness Hooper | 708 c39 (Link to this contribution) Clause 52: Duty to keep relevant matters under review Amendment 89L 89L: Clause 52, page 26, line ...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c39 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89JB 89JB: Schedule 6, page 236, line 3, leave out ““policy”” and insert ““marine plan”” ...

Baroness Hooper | 708 c39-41 (Link to this contribution) In moving Amendment 89L, I shall also speak to Amendments 101BZAA, 106CB, 107A and 107D. I have a g...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c38 (Link to this contribution) Given what the noble Baroness has said, I thank heaven that I did not read out the statement, but I ...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 708 c38 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend Lady Hamwee. I am sure that the distinction between ““general confo...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c38 (Link to this contribution) Is it clear in the noble Lord’s mind that the Scottish offshore area currently falls within the juri...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 708 c39 (Link to this contribution) Unless someone can tell me otherwise, the Scottish offshore area is, I think, within the jurisdictio...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 708 c37-8 (Link to this contribution) The Committee will be grateful to the Minister for his reply and probably even more grateful when he...

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c38 (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend withdraws his amendment, as I sense he is going to, I have a final point to m...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c52 (Link to this contribution) Clause 53: Delegation of functions relating to marine plans Amendment 90 90: Clause 53, page 27, l...

Baroness Hooper | 708 c51-2 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his comments, and I thank all noble Lords who have supported the amendment....

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c50-1 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that there is inconsistency, although I would be the first to emphasise that I am no ...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c48-50 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken in this interesting debate, and of course to the no...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 708 c50 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to my noble friend for the reassurances that he is offering the Committee. I...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c47 (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for tabling the amendments and those around the House who have spoken in her...

Baroness Byford | 708 c47-8 (Link to this contribution) I wish to add a further word in support of my noble friend Lady Hooper, and also to reflect on the c...

Lord Tyler | 708 c44-6 (Link to this contribution) I sincerely apologise to the Committee, particularly the noble Baroness, Lady Hooper, for missing th...

Lord Chorley | 708 c46-7 (Link to this contribution) I intervene for the first time on the Bill. I had intended to speak at Second Reading but had to wit...

Lord Judd | 708 c44 (Link to this contribution) After that very erudite contribution by my noble friend perhaps I may add just a general word. I sho...

Baroness Young of Old Scone | 708 c57-8 (Link to this contribution) I rise to support Amendments 91 and 92, to which I have put my name. The noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee...

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c56-7 (Link to this contribution) This amendment was tabled by my noble friend Lord Greaves, who has attached the name of my noble fri...

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c53 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister confirm my reading of the Bill that the direction could designate a statutory under...

Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 708 c53 (Link to this contribution) I am very unhappy with this amendment. It says: "““Any direction under subsection (2) from a marine ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c53-4 (Link to this contribution) This is an interesting question, on which I would like to allay the concerns of the noble Lord, Lord...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 708 c54 (Link to this contribution) The Minister’s case would have more force if he could indicate which other public bodies he thinks m...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c54-5 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord asks me to anticipate a circumstance that I hope will never arise. He will know that ...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c55-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that response and for the way in which he addressed the issues. On...

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c56 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 91 91: Clause 56, page 29, leave out lines 19 to 21

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c86-9 (Link to this contribution) This is a long group of amendments, and I congratulate the noble Baroness on a tour de force—on pick...

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 708 c89 (Link to this contribution) I have been mulling over whether to ask the Minister about one matter. He has tempted me by quoting ...

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c93 (Link to this contribution) I, too, was going to point out that a power is not the same as a duty. I will not attempt to run thr...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c92-3 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord accepts that there is a distinction between subsections (4)(a) and (4)(b). Subsection...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c89 (Link to this contribution) The Minister was addressing the amendments I have tabled. I should remind him that the wording is, "...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c89 (Link to this contribution) I knew I should mention that small jetty at the bottom of someone’s garden, but I now very much regr...

Lord Tyler | 708 c92 (Link to this contribution) I listened with great care to the Minister but I do not feel he has dealt adequately with Amendment ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c89-92 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the noble Lord does not think me hostile to his intent. I fully accept that the amendmen...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c73 (Link to this contribution) Clause 63: Licensable marine activities Amendment 100A 100A: Clause 63, page 35, line 28, leave ou...

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c85-6 (Link to this contribution) We become so involved in the Bill as we read it that it is irresistible. But it is not that; I think...

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c83-5 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 101ZC is part of a long group. I hope that I manage to pick up all the amendments; again, ...

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c83 (Link to this contribution) Clause 65: Notice of applications Amendment 101ZC 101ZC: Clause 65, page 37, line 10, at end inser...

Lord Tyler | 708 c83 (Link to this contribution) I do not know how the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, would respond to that, but I think that he would exp...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c81-3 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Greaves, never ceases to amaze me. Even when ill he is still assiduous in his a...

Lord Tyler | 708 c80-1 (Link to this contribution) It will surprise and delight the Committee to hear that my noble friend Lord Greaves is not sufficie...

Lord Tyler | 708 c80 (Link to this contribution) Clause 64: Applications Amendment 101ZA 101ZA: Clause 64, page 36, line 36, leave out ““or expedie...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c86 (Link to this contribution) We agree with the noble Baroness that relevant authorities should naturally be informed of applicati...

Lord Greenway | 708 c67-8 (Link to this contribution) I will also speak to Amendments 97 and 98. Clause 59 deals with the validity of marine policy statem...

Lord Greenway | 708 c70-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the support of the noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, and for the full response from the M...

Lord Davies of Oldham | 708 c69-70 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to both noble Lords who have spoken in this debate. The noble Lord, Lord Greenway, has...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c71 (Link to this contribution) Clause 62: Requirement for licence Amendment 100ZA 100ZA: Clause 62, page 34, line 33, at end inse...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c71 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 97ZA 97ZA: Clause 59, page 32, leave out line 36 Amendment 97ZA agreed. Amendments 97A ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c71-2 (Link to this contribution) The many government amendments in this group are of a technical nature, and Amendment 101 is in the ...

Lord Greenway | 708 c73 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful for that clarification, which allays my concerns considerably. Amendment 100ZA a...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c72-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for tabling this amendment because it allows me to clarify this poin...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c65 (Link to this contribution) I am aware of the degree of concern because we have debated it on a number of occasions. If one were...

Baroness Byford | 708 c65 (Link to this contribution) This was one of the issues that exercised the pre-legislative scrutiny committee. There was concern ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c64-5 (Link to this contribution) That is a fair question. We have already agreed that the MMO will have access to expert advice, whet...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c67 (Link to this contribution) Surely it is right that these critical issues are decided by Ministers. If there are changes in Admi...

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c66-7 (Link to this contribution) There can be clarity but still the problem to which the noble Baroness alluded, because the crunch i...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c66 (Link to this contribution) There is little more I can say on this matter. I understand what the noble Baroness is saying, but I...

Baroness Young of Old Scone | 708 c65-6 (Link to this contribution) There is a difference in relation to getting consistency between the marine policy statement and the...

Lord Greenway | 708 c67 (Link to this contribution) Clause 59: Validity of marine policy statements and marine plans Amendment 96 96: Clause 59, page ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c67 (Link to this contribution) Clause 57: The appropriate marine policy documents Amendments 94ZA and 94ZB 94ZA: Clause 57, page ...

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c67 (Link to this contribution) That is exactly my point. In saying that, the Minister strengthens my argument on the first two of t...

Baroness Byford | 708 c95 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate what the Minister is saying and I understand his logic. However, it continues to worry ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c94-5 (Link to this contribution) It is very tempting to do so. I fully accept the reasons why the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, has propos...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c95-6 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for that response. I cannot agree that including ““local”” and ““global”” lim...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c61-4 (Link to this contribution) I just do not see it that way. I was about to say that we are fully committed to ensuring that there...

Earl Cathcart | 708 c64 (Link to this contribution) I would like some clarification on who says no. I understand the Minister’s argument but what I do n...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c60-1 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may go on and then we can come back to the general point at the end. Clearly, it is an imp...

Lord Tyler | 708 c61 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is claiming that there is balance and equality and that there will be a level playing f...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c60 (Link to this contribution) That is an ingenious intervention, but as the Minister responsible for debating these points at a la...

Earl Cathcart | 708 c60 (Link to this contribution) I do not buy that at all. It was not resolved in the Planning Bill. During proceedings on the Planni...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c59-60 (Link to this contribution) Apparently not. I agree with the noble Lord about the importance of this group of amendments, althou...

Baroness Young of Old Scone | 708 c60 (Link to this contribution) I am puzzled by the Minister's reply, bearing in mind the Government’s response to the pre-legislati...

Earl Cathcart | 708 c58-9 (Link to this contribution) We have already spent some time dwelling on the relationship between the MMO and the IPC. It is clea...

Duke of Montrose | 708 c15 (Link to this contribution) Coal is reserved to Westminster, as are gas and oil.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c17-8 (Link to this contribution) Paragraph 1 of Schedule 6 sets out a clear intention to ensure that at the start of preparing a mari...

Baroness Byford | 708 c27 (Link to this contribution) In the earlier part of that very full response, for which we are grateful, the Minister clearly stat...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c23 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to intervene but there is a group starting with Amendment 89HC, 89JZAA and 90ZB. I want t...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c93-4 (Link to this contribution) We are still on the determination of applications. In moving Amendment 101A, I shall also speak to A...

Lord Greenway | 708 c72 (Link to this contribution) My Amendment 101 seeks to insert paragraph (c) into Clause 63(2), which deals with descriptions of d...

Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 708 c59 (Link to this contribution) Some of the most important amendments to the Bill are contained in this group. I agree with the nobl...

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c18-9 (Link to this contribution) First, I apologise to the Committee on behalf of my noble friend Lord Greaves, who is unwell. As oth...

Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 708 c11-3 (Link to this contribution) The amendment picks up the devolutionary theme that runs through this Bill; it is designed to elicit...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c93 (Link to this contribution) Clause 66: Determination of applications Amendment 101A 101A: Clause 66, page 37, line 30, after s...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c85 (Link to this contribution) The problem is that far more amendments are now put down, for some reason.

Earl Cathcart | 708 c68-9 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Greenway, has tabled interesting amendments, which we support. It is important ...

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath | 708 c95 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Baroness for her helpful suggestions. The problem with accepting the...

Baroness Byford | 708 c27 (Link to this contribution) I have no difficulty with that. Clearly if there are fewer people involved, unlike on land, obviousl...

Baroness Hamwee | 708 c23 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 89J 89J: Schedule 6, page 235, line 3, leave out ““consider appointing”” and insert ““app...

Lord Howarth of Newport | 708 c41-4 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Hooper, who has so cogently introduced this group of...

Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 708 c52-3 (Link to this contribution) This amendment will presumably come as no surprise to your Lordships. Much as we support the overall...

Subjects

Devolved matters

Applications

Conservation

Coal

Coastal areas

Archaeology

Devolution

Cultural heritage

Biodiversity

Fisheries

Licensing